Talk:Larries

Template:Fanpov

@BappleBusiness, since you added it, it could be helpful if you state the problems you see. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

It seems it's possible the editor is questioning my objectivity since I have edited a lot of Harry Styles related topics. However, I do think it's a little unfair to call that "fanpov" seeing as it's quite obvious that, for example, David Bowie's page is clearly edited by people who are fans of his music. The claim would suggest that only people who feel neutrally on this topic should be allowed to edit for it, which I think is ridiculous as people who feel neutrally are quite unlikely to have read at this point in my research, like 60 articles on the topic. If @BappleBusiness can find someone willing to do that type of work with no investment whatsoever I look forward to that person's additions to the page, unblinded by alleged fan loyalty. H-influenzae (talk) 16:06, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Apologies if my former reply comes off as a little snarky but I do think the suggestion is a little ridiculous, particularly as the article does not comment on One Direction's (or Harry or Louis') work whatsoever, and I actually deleted whole chunks of the lead on "List of Songs Written By Harry Styles" the other day for being, in my opinion, unnecessary fluff that some fan at some point did just add in to make him look better. H-influenzae (talk) 16:23, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

It's perfectly okay for fans of a topic to edit articles about those topics; that's not why I added the tag. I added the notice because although the facts are all technically correct, the article was written in a non-neutral, informal, oftentimes mocking tone. The harassment that fans have done in the name of the Larry conspiracy theory is obviously detestable, and the theory is obviously false, but the tone of the article has to remain WP:IMPARTIAL. I changed the wording of phrases like By 2014, Larries had become obsessed with the idea that Tomlinson and Styles were sending secret messages directly to them and That the colors green and blue appearing anywhere on earth in any context represents Styles and Tomlinson. I tried to correct the tone issues I saw, and since I can't really find any other issues tone-wise now, I'll be removing the tag. ~BappleBusiness^[talk] 20:40, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Sounds good, thanks for clarification. That seems fair. H-influenzae (talk) 21:40, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Btw, what is "Bedroom cultures"? It's not obvious to me per context in article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:08, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I'll explain bedroom cultures, I just got tired and had to pause my work for a little bit. Sorry about that. H-influenzae (talk) 16:01, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Tiffany talks about bedroom cultures in her book and articles but I haven't gotten a chance to pull them yet.H-influenzae (talk) 16:12, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Current version

I read through it, and at a glance, it's not that bad. Possible areas of improvement:

• This bit in the WP:LEAD: "A fundamental part of this conspiracy theory is that the two, name blended as "Larry Stylinson" ("Larry" for short), have been closeted by their management company, Modest Management, supposedly guided by homophobic corporate interests." doesn't have much coverage in the rest of the article.
• Currently nothing about covid in the section about covid. And apart from section heading, covid is lead only. Maybe it doesn't fit the WP:LEAD, regardless?
• The content under the Ideology heading is pretty good, but the heading and some of the subheadings don't fit very well.
• Perhaps we should include an explanation on what Shipping (fandom) is somewhere early in the article, like [1]. Also, "stans" now pop up in article text without warning. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:06, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
• I remember reading in sources (that I'm not going to dig up atm) that Larries consider/considered their fandom a private thing, not for the general public. This may deserve a mention somewhere. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:20, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

  I know what you're talking about off the top of my head actually - there's several articles from 2016 on "Crazy About One Direction" that talk about Larry as a private thing. Tiffany references those articles/book as well, and I think McCann and Southern do too?

  I think you're right that it doesn't fit WP:LEAD.

  I'm still trying to figure out the ideology section. I actually have a friend who I have provided my bibliography to who has a history with Larries and their ideology that goes way back, and I've been trying to inform her about how to edit according to the rules on Wikipedia so her work may also help a lot. But she can't get to it until next week maybe.

  Adding an explanation of Shipping is a good idea, and in particular adding a longer explanation of RPS is a good idea, it has its own WP page. H-influenzae (talk) 16:17, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

(I'm a new user so I'm not totally sure how to make notes. As of Sep.18, I expanded the lead. I think there should be a controversy section in this article. The article gives a bit of a biased sense as there is a lot of information regarding idealogy towards the truth-leaning side, but not the side of those who disbelieve.) Technicolortrees (talk) 15:47, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Technicolortrees

I reverted you, your removals and additions did not improve the WP:LEAD. There should not be a controversy section since the whole CT is a controversy, see also WP:CRITS. The article is supposed to be biased towards summarizing WP:RS on the topic, WP:FALSEBALANCE is not the goal. I'm not saying the article is perfect but the beliefs of Larries (what I assume you mean by "truth-leaning side") is a significant part of the subject. The view that CT is CT takes less words, and those who hold it are not Larries (somewhat simplified). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for your responses! I am a new user so thankful to receive editing feedback and did not realize the WP:FALSEBALANCE is not the goal of the article. Is there something that could be done in response to the "the lead section of this article may need to be rewritten" tag this article has been given? Technicolortrees (talk) 20:14, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

@Technicolortrees, thanks for talking. What currently sticks out to me is "have been closeted by their management company, Modest Management, supposedly guided by homophobic corporate interests." This needs to be talked about/expanded on in the body, somewhere, then the lead-bit can be tweaked depending on how that turns out, perhaps shortened. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:27, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Babygate

Is there a reason that the Babygate section was whittled down so much? It was already pretty short for what a big deal it was at the time, because of my opinion that the reporting on it was so invasive, and the impact on the fandom (which is backed by scholarly sources) was just cut out entirely. H-influenzae (talk) 16:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Bibliography

Here's a list of links I have found, some of which are not in the resources section of the page yet, that I think would be valuable to incorporate into the article. While I think this is a really valuable topic, I have determined that I need to let it go for now and contribute to parts of the site that I think require some more attention (Harry's main article for one) and will make me happier (I find this topic to be quite upsetting, if I am honest, and I would like to work on some things that spark joy.) all of these links, sans the Tiffany book (which I think is a necessary read) have PDF links attached, or are readable on google books .

I might come back at some point but I will leave you all to it for now.

Books

Everything I Need I Get From You, Kaitlyn Tiffany (2022)

Brennan, JosephQueerbaiting and fandom: teasing fans through homoerotic possibilitieshttps://webapps.unsworks.library.unsw.edu.au/fapi/datastream/unsworks:66858/bindd47bcd5-87dc-4fa4-95e2-c32c77e7d441

·       https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/doi/10.4324/9781003022343-18#sec18_2

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Romantic_Love/j_tPEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=larry

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Romantic_Love/j_tPEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=routledge+companion+to+romantic+love&printsec=frontcover

Shipping (as) Fandom and Art Practice (Owen G Parry) in Fandom as Methodology: A Sourcebook for Artists and Writers (2019)

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fandom_as_Methodology/dMK9DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

·       https://ualresearchonline.arts.ac.uk/id/eprint/18009/11/Shipping%20as%20Fandom%20and%20Art%20Practice.pdf

Transmedia Music: The Value of Music as a Transmedia Asset (Paola Brembilla) The Routelage Companion to Transmedia (2018)

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Transmedia_St/CatxDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22larry+stylinson%22&pg=PT142&printsec=frontcover

A New Breed of Fan?: Regimes of Truth, One Direction Fans and Representations of Enfreakment (W Proctor) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in Media and Popular Culture (2016)

·       https://www.bloomsburycollections.com/book/seeing-fans-representations-of-fandom-in-media-and-popular-culture/ch6-a-new-breed-of-fan-regimes-of-truth-one-direction-fans-and-representations-of-enfreakment

·       http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/29327/1/A%20New%20Breed%20of%20Fan%3F.pdf

“I will Throw You off Your Ship and You Will Drown and Die”: Death Threats, Intra-Fandom Hate, and the Performance of Fangirling (Bethan Jones) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in media and Popular Culture (2018)

·       https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/seeing-fans-9781501318450/

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/Seeing_Fans/-_9FDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1

Crazy About One Direction: Whose Shame is it Anyway? (Daisy Asquith) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in Media and Popular Culture

·       https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/22295/1/Whose%20Shame%20FINALpdf.pdf

·       https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/seeing-fans-9781501318450/

News

Larry Stylinson, the One Direction conspiracy theory that rules the internet, explained, Aja Romano (2016) https://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11384118/larry-stylinson-one-direction-conspiracy-theory

Who decided that Louis Tomlinson’s baby is fake, why, and is he?, Kaitlyn Tiffany (2016) https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/8/11393680/louis-tomlinson-fake-baby-why-one-direction-tumblr-conspiracy

Why fans think HBO’s Euphoria crossed a major fanfiction boundary, Palmer Haasch (2019) https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/7/2/20678859/euphoria-harry-louis-larry-fanfiction

Fans Are Furious After HBO’s “Euphoria” Included an Animated Sex Scene Between Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson, Ellie Bate (2019) https://www.buzzfeed.com/eleanorbate/hbo-euphoria-harry-styles-louis-tomlinson-larry-scene

Meet the TikTokers obsessed with Harry Styles’ ‘secret’ love life, Jessica Lucas (2022) https://www.inputmag.com/culture/larries-larry-stylinson-tiktok-harry-styles-harrys-house-olivia-wilde

One Direction fandom adds billionaire record exec to conspiracy theory, Gavia Baker-Whitelaw (2013) https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/one-direction-larry-stylinson-clive-calder/

Why Do Harry Styles Fans Hate Olivia Wilde?, Kayleigh Donaldson (2022) https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-do-harry-styles-fans-hate-olivia-wilde

Love the Internet? Hate It? Thank a Fan, Kenzie Bryant (2022) https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2022/06/how-fangirls-created-the-internet-as-we-know-it-kaitlyn-tiffany

How One Direction fans deal with online harassment, Aja Romano (2012) https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/one-direction-fans-larry-stylinson-harassment/

Larry Stylinson is a conspiracy hellhole involving two of music’s biggest stars (2021) https://www.thepitchkc.com/larry-stylinson-is-a-weird-conspiracy-hellhole-involving-two-of-musics-biggest-stars/

The Internet is Mourning 42 Suicidal, Potentially Non-Existent One Direction Fans (2013) https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2013/08/internet-mourning-42-suicidal-one-direction-fans-might-not-even-exist/312076/

MPREG versus Homonormcore (2015) https://thenewinquiry.com/mpreg-versus-homonormcore/

The inner lives of adult One Direction fans (2017) https://theoutline.com/post/2115/the-inner-lives-of-adult-one-direction-fans

Why are so many adults obsessed with one direction (2015) https://www.vice.com/en/article/rnw9bw/why-are-so-many-adults-obsessed-with-one-direction

slash and burn (2012) https://web.archive.org/web/20150330024441/http://amandahess.org/slash-and-burn/

One Direction Fanfic Takes the Art World by Storm (2016) https://www.vice.com/en/article/bmy3q4/one-direction-fanfiction-art-exhibition

is fan fiction ethical? (2019) https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/43zed3/fan-fiction-consent-ethics

Why do Adult Women Love One Direction Slash Fanfiction (2015) https://www.vice.com/en/article/evg4gm/why-do-adult-women-love-one-direction-slash-fanfiction

The “No Homo” Fantasy that Is One Direction (2012) https://www.vice.com/en/article/8gvexg/the-no-homo-fantasy-that-is-one-direction

why do our brains love celebrity conspiracy theories? (2018) https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/gy7bbq/celebrity-conspiracy-theories-taylor-avril

The Bizarre Taylor Swift Conspiracy Theory That She is Secretly Gay (2016) https://www.vice.com/en/article/4xkje3/the-taylor-swift-conspiracy-ring-thats-convinced-shes-secretly-gay

Scholarship

Repetitions of Desire: Queering the One Direction Fangirl, Hannah McCann (2019) https://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/girlhood-studies/12/1/ghs120106.xml?ArticleBodyColorStyles=full-text

Rainbow Direction and fan-based citizenship performance, Bri Mattia (2018) https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/1414/1969

Lesbian Fandom Remakes the Boy Band https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/64930476/writing_sample-with-cover-page-v2.pdf?Expires=1656528649&Signature=euIJn94907CfG612yo1G-EpcVEy~Q4eJe4Lm~ogC-8PlmmxIcm6~Ai7BDjZ4F7gwR2IrFq0F85JHTtRTNHUabdbY0WlVsIDhvFR0LLcbjU~U-w8KhMe21~faWNqkHtP2LJNZxxf8l6Tnm3pSw3Iag7n-TY7z4cpV0KUUWG~D3DOYVz2qdlsu6j~SS8813KKLuymv0TxW2shVUqpZNJFzoWjj8mmP0gGv1LYAjPLw8nfbI15JuwRNWg9hN4yyPp6SDwLpB6vKQ9Cs5uvBo7F5tZV~KkAyOsJg5-JP9qlA4PCrQ-KGezkNTCepq2IPN7zg20eKW1fSEkQnf608XkCkaA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA

You & I: One Direction, Fans and the Co-Construction of Identity (2017) https://ourarchive.otago.ac.nz/handle/10523/7691 ; https://ourarchive.otago.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10523/7691/LovelockMillicentE2017MA.pdf?sequence=1

“Story of My Life”: Why One Direction Fans are Still Participating https://journals.tdl.org/swecjmc/index.php/swecjmc/article/download/97/98

H-influenzae (talk) 17:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2023

Please change

Larries are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson have a long-term and secret romantic relationship.[1][2][3]: 173–174 

to

Larries are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson have or had a long-term and secret romantic relationship.[1][2][3]: 173–174 Some Larry conspirary theorists also believe that they has some sort of a romance during the early days of One Direction, but since have gone their seperate ways. Editor234823940 (talk) 13:17, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Adding to that, the WP:LEAD is supposed to be summary of the rest of the article, and the article is supposed to be a summary of WP:RS about Larries. I don't much doubt there are people such as you describe, but has any decent sources noticed and bothered to write something about them? Per Fanlore (a WP:USERG source), there are many flavors of Larrie, that doesn't necessarily mean they are mentioned here. I see on that page something termed "Houie." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:29, 25 November 2023 (UTC)