Talk:Latrodectus hesperus

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 September 2020 and 17 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lilygreenberg.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Outline for article expansion

I borrowed the outline for expanding the Latrodectus hesperus article from Brown recluse spider. See said article for additional ideas. —Quicksilver^{T @} 21:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

highly venemous?

I realize this is just a short stub of an article but I think when people add something it would be nice if they accompanied it with a source.

we noticed that the word, highly, was added to the description of venomous for this spider.

Highly venomous is a highly undefined term and doesn't add anymore to the issue than venomous. The value add to this article would be if somebody summarized the results of western black widow spider venom studies and linked to the source(s).

FWIW, I believe that spiders in the Latrodectus genus all have bites that are harmful to humans and that L. hesperus is among the most dangerous. So highly venomous might be warranted but without a source I'm just somebody yapping away on the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davefoc (talk • contribs) 01:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Sugaki edits about females L. mactans eating males during mating

Sugaki added this sentence.

In contrast to the Latrodectus mactans, the Western widow females do not kill the male during reproduction.

I reverted the edit because:
1. I suspect it is untrue. I believe that the redback spider female (L. hasselti) does eat the male often after copulation however I don't know of any current information that supports the claim that L. mactans females do.

2. The sentence is not documented with a citation and on a claim that is suspect this is essential. Davefoc (talk) 07:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Miswrote the sentence, meant to say that males are rarely eaten instead of killed(minor distinction). Couple notes:

1. The L. Mactans article itself states that females eat the males, and has for a long time--this isn't new information, nor does it seem disputed.

2. Citation given. Hastings does significant research on Western Widows and is affiliated with the University of California. Sugaki (talk) 09:54, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Nice work. The habit of eating males, giving one common name, is noted in many sources as not being its usual behaviour. cygnis insignis 10:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe there is a problem even with the the rewritten sentence.

The claim is essentially that L. hesperus females are less likely to eat males during breeding that L. mactans females. I see where this idea comes from in some of the referenced material but I don't think there is any direct sources to support this notion. The bulk of all the secondary source type material on the web says that it is rare for L. mactans females to eat the male after breeding. This is a link to a primary source that documents experiments that confirm this notion: http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v13_n3/JoA_v13_p331.pdf

However to make the claim that L. hesperus females eat males less frequently during breeding than L. mactans females some kind of comparative study should be referenced I think. The Hastings source is both secondary and doesn't go to the issue of comparing the rate of sexual cannibalism in L. mactans with L. hesperus.Davefoc (talk) 15:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

To clarify on the thrust of why I wanted to add the text, it wasn't to draw a comparative analysis on how often it engages in sexual cannibalism compared to mactans. The emphasis was to counter the classic notion that sexual cannibalism is commonplace with Black Widows. The sexual cannibalism article itself says that sexual cannibalism with Black Widows is "prevalent," and hence it seems a distinction would be desirable with hesperus since there are some indications that the opposite is true (albeit sources are limited). The reference to mactans can be swapped to Latrodectus hasselti if using mactans is debatable (Redback cannibalism seems commonplace). Sugaki (talk) 19:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It would be nice

If there was more information on the spider in this article. Information such as behaviors, most common locations (both geographical and, for example, where they might be found around someone's house), symptoms of a bite, et cetera. I would love to add this information myself, but I lack both the knowledge and the time to research these spiders and gather sources for any information I were to gather. Anyway, thank you all :) you're doing a good service! 173.51.196.2 (talk) 23:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I live in the Mojavi desert within a cove in La Quinta California. We are located on the perimeter of the cove surrounded by a dry wash and the foothills of the Santa Rosa Mountains. The Black Widow is a very common spider, but I would like to note from experience that the spider is rarely found within the home (I suspect this has to do with the use of air conditioners and / or evaporator coolers (aka: swamp coolers)). The spider prefers the dryness and the heat of the desert and is common in the hotter months (May to October). The Black Widow is found around rocks, planter boxes and within the garage. The only times we found the spider in the home was when it was transported into the home on or within a cardboard box brought in from either outside or from the garage. We take caution and have never been bitten. However, my wife is a nurse at the local hospital and has worked in the ER. There are a surprising number of patients who have been bitten and are being treated as the neurotoxin causes the bite area swell and die off (necrosis). —Preceding unsigned comment added by LQEngineer (talk • contribs) 05:41, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I've thought about the issue of why black widow spiders are so seldom found indoors. They are very common in our yard and in our neighborhood but I've never found one in the house. I did find a brown widow female in our house (which might even be more common than black widows around here) in the house once. I can think of a few reasons. First only the males seem to wander much, once a female black widow spider has a spot she likes she tends to stay there. Secondly black widow eat mostly ground prey and there's not a lot of that in most houses although ants might be a major exception to that. Perhaps the nature of the ground based web system might be an issue. People tend to sweep houses which would destroy black widow webs that are built along the floor. Black widows were supposedly a problem when people used outhouses. That might tend to not support some of my theories. Why do black widows tend to like outhouses and not homes? Maybe you're right that it has something to do with the air conditioning but we don't use ours that much and we still don't have black widows in the house. Actually, for that matter we only have a very few species of spiders that have ever been in the house. They are almost entirely the Pholcidae (daddy long legs type) spiders. We have on some occasions had steadotas and funnel web spiders build webs in the window frame but the Pholcidae are the only spiders that routinely reside in our house, so perhaps the question should be what is it about Pholcidaes that make them so successful at establishing themselves in houses? Davefoc (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Over the years I have kept several wild caught black widows from the Fair Oaks, Ione, and Loomis, California areas. Keep in mind that black widows do not typically make webs in places that are routinely disturbed or exposed to light so the interior of the average American's home would not be a likely place to find one. They very much prefer low to the ground places that are seldom disturbed, with access to a crevice of some sort to hide in, and usually will not be easily seen during the day unless they are injured. Outhouses are more preferable than homes likely because they are darker (no windows), have a space under the seating area for a secluded web and the contents of the outhouse may attract a source of food.

The single most useful tool for locating a widow is knowing the feel and look of their web. Black widows create webs that appear haphazard and are much stronger than most other spider webs (Please note that black widows MAY BITE if you use your fingers to test the strength of the web, especially if this is done at night when they are out and most responsive to struggling pray. Instead, please use a stick or tool to touch the web if are unsure of its inhabitant.) The exception to this, however, is the web of the Steatoda species which creates similar if not identical webs and is similar in shape to the black widow, so you cannot rely on the web alone for identification. As a general rule of thumb if you find a strong cobweb on something you need to handle proceed with due caution. (By the way, Davefoc, those Steatodas you've seen may be another reason you don't find widows in your house, as Steatodas aka "false widows" are predators to black widows. In fact, when I moved into my house 14 years ago it was easy to find widows in the garage or outside the house, and then a few years later all I could find were Steatodas. I haven't found a black widow here since 1997).

After locating a potential web that fits the description of a desirable black widow nesting spot you can quietly check the web at night, which is the only time the spider will be out in the open. Alternatively, if you own a shed, have a woodpile or some other feature that you think would be inhabited by a widow you could get a flashlight and check those places for exposed black widows at night as well.

Finding a black widow around your home is not the end of the world. As a keeper I can attest to the fact that black widows are clumsy off their webs, have poor vision, and are cowards. I have seen many mothers quickly abandon her egg sac, which she spends considerable time and energy creating, rather than defend it from a perceived threat. I also have a hard time catching them because their first response to human intrusion is to hide or drop to the ground and run away. If one were to categorize their response as fight or flight it would undoubtedly be flight.

Lastly, please remember that black widows do not seek out humans to bite; bites normally occur when the spider is pressed against skin or when humans accidentally insert themselves into the spiders web. Like all spiders, black widows consume pests like flies, mosquitoes, roaches, and other insects and can be beneficial to have around for this reason. I hope this was somewhat helpful. It would be pointless for me to update the main article as the behavior of spiders is not a well researched topic and citing my own or other hobbyists as a source would not be adequate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.252.219 (talk) 08:16, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Haha, very amusing firsthand experiences! I also have them all around my home. I have been bitten a total of four times in a period of 22 years, three times on the knee after kneeling on them while gardening, and only just yesterday by one that had somehow got into my jacket and bit me on the back of the hand. The bites are typically only slightly painful, though they itch for up to two weeks. Only very slight necrosis, limited to sloughing of several layers of skin within 1/4 inch of the bite, which typically develops a small central pustule. They seem to typically bite only once, whereas there seems to be another much less venomous spider around that bites repeatedly, so you wind up with a little constellation of bites.

Latrodectus Hesperus - western or black widow found in Florida

I was just in the pool with my two children and found 2 western black widows (according to the Wikipedia descriptions). One was large with abdomen the size of the tip of an adult women's pinky (very clear red hourglass). The other was much smaller but same description. Glassy lack with bright red hourglass clearly visible. Just wanted to inform what I found at my house in the Orlando area of Florida. Took pictures but don't know how to add to this site as of yet. PS there were no yellow markings whatsoever on these spiders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.102.193.24 (talk) 18:38, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Proposed move at Black Widow.

For any editors concerned, there is a proposed moved at the disambiguation page Black Widow. If you have anything to add to the discussion, please do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_Widow#Proposed_move Weebro55 (talk) 03:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

What additional information could make this page better?

Although this page presents some basic insight into the habitat and diet of the Western black widow, it is not as specific as it could be. I think adding additional information to these two sections would make the geographical and ecological context in which the black widow feeds, as well as what its core prey consists of, more accessible to the reader. In addition, this article is lacking information on the social behavior of the black widow. Providing information on this spider’s sociality (both in the juvenile and adult stages of life), as well as parental care behavior would help readers understand how black widows are socialized, and their function as solitary or social spiders as adults. Since the black widow is such a renowned spider, I was surprised to see how much information was left out. I'm sure there's ample research available to contribute to making this article even better. SlyFox52 (talk) 21:58, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Behavioral Ecology Student

This Wikipedia entry is very well-researched and well-written. It has really informative sections and subsections. The text is fully referenced. I like how detailed all the sections are and how they have multiple subsections each. I also really like the leading section as it has captivating information in it. I found it very interesting how female black widows have potent venom that are again against some mammals. I only made minor edits to the grammar and inserted links to words like polyphagous. Saachijain (talk) 05:45, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Student Edit

I really liked your article and especially the gallery it had! It was cool to see images of spiders because a lot of times Wikipedia articles are a lot of words. I think one thing your article is missing is the physical characteristics and descriptions of the spider itself. You have a lot of information that relates to the course topic which is great but I think some basic information could also help your article. Also considering the fact that the venom of this spider is really well known, I think it would be cool to have a heading/subheading that covers the venom of the spider and explains it in more detail. Otherwise, I changed some grammar errors and slightly edited some sentence structures to make the article flow better. shutaro.hayashihara (talk) 02:32, 1 December 2020 (UTC)