Talk:Latto

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• Mulatto, rapper.jpg

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Requested move 19 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Strong consensus to move from Mulatto (Rapper), rough consensus to move the rapper's page to Latto and to move the current name page to make room for it. The editors have achieved a consensus to move the page. Editors, expressed significant disagreement regarding whether or not the rapper is the topic of primary usage for the phrase "Latto". One argument in favor of the proposed move puts forward the proposition that no other individual is well-known by the name "Latto". A similar argument is made, which on pageview statistics to argue that the move would be justified by the first criterion of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The arguments in opposition argued that the rapper does not satisfy the PRIMARYTOPIC criteria owing to the second criterion thereof. Since the guideline states that consensus is the way to resolve the conflict, and there appears to be a rough consensus to use the first criterion in this case, editors thereby obtained a rough consensus to execute the proposed move. (non-admin closure) — Mikehawk10 (talk) 05:02, 3 June 2021 (UTC) — Mikehawk10 (talk) 05:02, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

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• Mulatto (rapper) → Latto
• Latto → Latto (disambiguation)

– Mulatto has changed her stage name from Mulatto to Latto following a highly publicized controversy regarding whether or not the former stage name is appropriate. Reliable sources already use the new name: [3] [1] [2] . Her profile on RCA Records has also changed the name. The second part of this request is to make Mulatto the primary topic at Latto, as pageviews clearly indicate this would be appropriate. versacespaceleave a message! 22:59, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 00:17, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. I'm not convinced she's the primary topic for "Latto". Move to Latto (rapper). Rreagan007 (talk) 00:40, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Note: I've changed "Latto (surname)" to "Latto (Disambiguation)" in the nomination because someone changed the page as such. This shouldn't affect the above votes. versacespaceleave a message! 00:52, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Note Definitely prefer Latto (rapper) Sunrise In Brooklyn ✉ 03:08, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support: The name is already changed on all streaming services and she's confirmed it herself on social media. ThesePicklesLoveSosa (talk) 04:02, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support moving to Latto (rapper). DA1 (talk) 05:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support moving to Latto (rapper). No primary - oppose that as Rreagan and others, and (rapper) will only help readers/fans. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:52, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support. All the other entries at Latto are people with the surname Latto. In other words, they're all WP:PARTIAL matches. In my view, this makes the rapper the automatic primary topic, unless anyone can present evidence that any of the other people are commonly referred to by their surname alone. Furthermore, pageview stats (edit: massviews link out of date since dab links were changed - try this instead), suggest the rapper gets orders of magnitude more views than any of these other articles. Colin M (talk) 14:28, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support, well referenced name change. This subject is primary per pageviews, and as mentioned above, none of the other people at Latto are known mononymously. 162 etc. (talk) 14:43, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom and two preceding comments, although ideally the page now at Latto should be moved to Latto (name) since it's a name page, not a dab page. Station1 (talk) 21:50, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@Colin M: Maybe I'm reading your link wrong but Zena Latto shows the most page views for "Latto". But if we were to just look at the articles on their own, as of yet the views for "Mulatto (rapper)" are attributable to 'Mulatto' rather than 'Latto'. Nevertheless, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC says of it's criteria:

Quote:

• A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.
• A topic is primary for a term with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.

In a few cases, there is some conflict between a topic of primary usage (Apple Inc.) and one of primary long-term significance (Apple). In such a case, consensus may be useful in determining which topic, if any, is the primary topic.

/Quote.

I don't consider the rapper to be fulfilling the criteria of long-term significance with the name/title just yet. Maybe in a few years things can change, but not as of right now. Title should be Latto (rapper), and the "Latto" page should be according to WP:NOPRIMARY which states: If there are multiple topics (even just two) to which a given title might refer, but per the criteria at Is there a primary topic? there is no primary topic, then the base name should lead the reader to the disambiguation page for the term. –DA1 (talk) 23:40, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@DA1: Sorry, the massviews link changed because someone changed the dab page (appropriately). It used to have a piped link to Mulatto (rapper), but has changed to use the redirect Latto (rapper). I updated my comment above to add a new pageviews link that should show what I was talking about. Colin M (talk) 00:34, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@Colin M: I see the update now. But my point still stands about it not sufficiently meeting Criteria #2 of PRIMARYTOPIC yet. My point also stands that the page views for "Mulatto (rapper)" shouldn't be conflated with 'Latto' per se. –DA1 (talk) 02:35, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@DA1: I'm not too sure I understand your reasoning here. The only thing keeping (Mu)latto from having the page name "Latto" is the disambiguation/surname page. (Mu)latto is the only subject in the encyclopedia that goes solely by "Latto". How does this not make her the automatic primary topic? Especially when the disambiguation/surname page and other articles listed are miles away from ever seeing the pageviews that (Mu)latto is seeing. ver→sacespaceleave a message! 03:37, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@VersaceSpace: She just recently changed her name to Latto. How does that give her enduring notability and long-term significance over the name? The rapper being the primary 'Latto' can be determined perhaps 1-2 years from now if she fulfills those criteria by then, but that is not the case now. –DA1 (talk) 13:10, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

As for her being the only person going by simply 'Latto', see NOPRIMARY highlighted in green above. "If there are multiple topics (even just two) to which a given title might refer," for example Latto can also refer to Zena Latto, et al. That's after if she doesn't meet PRIMARYTOPIC, which I've pointed out that she doesn't (yet), because she just recently changed her name and therefore does not have enduring notability and long-term significance over 'Latto' yet. –DA1 (talk) 13:18, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Zena Latto averages 2 views per day. Mulatto (rapper) averages 1,600[3]. Is there any evidence in any reliable source that Zena Latto is ever referred to as solely "Latto"? Even if there is, the extremely rare reader who forgets her first name can find her through the hatnote to the name page. That shouldn't trump the huge majority who expect to find the rapper under the title. Titles serve readers. Station1 (talk) 14:17, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support Mulatto (rapper) → Latto per above. The only actual article we have with that title. Oppose Latto → Latto (disambiguation) because the resulting page will be a pure surname page with no DAB elements; see {{Surname}}. Support alternative proposal Latto → Latto (name). Narky Blert (talk) 12:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. No primary topic here. She's not well-known to trump all the others. Move to Latto (rapper). -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:23, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support moving Mulatto to Latto. As Colin M and others pointed out, none of the people listed at Latto have the actual name Latto, it's their surname. AshMusique (talk) 15:28, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support Clear primary topic among pages that a user would expect to land at from Latto. For the surnames, a hatnote seems like the right solution.--Yaksar (let's chat) 21:45, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

• Furthermore, I've seen no argument from those arguing that the surnames are the reason why this would not be the primary topic as to why that would be the case -- page views show an overwhelmingly clear primary, or an explanation as to why the various stubs would exhibit enough long term significance to override the overwhelmingly clear stats.--Yaksar (let's chat) 01:40, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2023

add comma after “…debut solo single "Seven" and add “which debuted at #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 and broke various streaming records.”

source: https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/jung-kook-latto-seven-number-one-debut-hot-100-jason-aldean-1235377400/amp/ Nbrown2005 (talk) 04:06, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done: here. I did not include "broke various streaming records" because I could not find support for that in the given citation. Xan747 (talk) 22:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

WikiEdu HH50 Sp 2024

We should upgrade this article and study it as Latto's single gains notability in the press. I think an article for "Sunday Service" is needed given her notability and the virility of the single on the YouTube Billboard charts. She sits at #1 as of today. sheridanford (talk) 14:04, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Question about your removing content from my edit

@KimYubin. While you may interpret that the "description seems too long," how are you deciding that the references, plural, are unnecessary? And why was the redlink removed? I am curious. Most editors would assume positive intent and notice that I was in the midst of making changes by the timestamp. We are collaborating here and I hope to here your take before I continue editing. I was setting things up as part of the Women in Red project, and my WikiEdu HH50 course, so that my students who are learning to edit can watch me -- a more experienced editor -- contribute to the sum of all human knowledge as they learn to do so themselves. I hope you'll make room for the newbies in this light. sheridanford (talk) 12:45, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I do not think that references about women being used as an adjective and how black lines are used in the media are needed because they are common sense in my opinion. Women being used as an adjective is especially common on Wikipedia as you can see in categories such as Category:American women rappers.

I replaced your redlink with Sunday Service (song), a redirect that was already created, because Sunday Service (Latto single) is a wrong article title. There is no article on Wikipedia about another song named Sunday Service and single is rarely used as an identifier, so Sunday Service (song) would be the correct title. KimYubin (talk) 14:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @KimYubin! I appreciate your swift response. It's so uncommon to experience the collaborative process in real time (just minutes after editing something current was new for me as I often avoid current affairs). I jumped to a few conclusions when I noticed the deducted bytes which meant in the moment that I was reverted. I'd just been reverted. Yes, it may be common sense to you that references to women vs female are common sense, AND it is not yet normalized across the 300,000 Wikipedians, or the far lower number of editors doing hip-hop articles where patriarchy and masculine norms involve referring to women as females all the time.

I've been editing for a while now. I appreciated the Sunday Service lesson around the redlink. I love hip hop as a woman of African descent and someone who's been teaching hip-hop since 1993 at the university level.

One thing that felt like an "ouch" from a fellow editor was the "Sunday Service (Latto single" is a wrong article title" I know you meant no harm, but you could avoid using right and wrong on Wikipedia as an editor to honor the 5 pillars. Wikipedia has no firm rules. An alternative to "is a wrong article title" might be this: "the article title is not a good fit or is not customary". That lands better. Like a calling in not out a community. This is important given situations where women and people of color get reverted when we edit issues about gender, racism and sexism.

We all want to leave people and be lef better than when we got here doing this for the love of it. You never know what adverse experiences someone you are reverting has been going through to be a member of this amazing knowledge activist community. No one needs or wants their volunteer contributions labeled as "wrong" when it's just something we are all collaborating to make better without forgetting the people not just the encyclopedia. I hope you receive my feedback respectfully and I again thank you for your assistance. sheridanford (talk) 21:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 March 2024

Latto is 5'5" and she also now dates 21 savage 209.133.102.32 (talk) 20:53, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 22:53, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Hip Hop 50

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 January 2024 and 4 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Egna389 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Amus226 (talk) 23:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)