Talk:Laura Ingalls (disambiguation)
Latest comment: 7 years ago by Bradv in topic Requested move 28 November 2016
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Requested move 28 November 2016
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Move as proposed. There is a consensus from the majority of editors that Laura Ingalls Wilder is the primary topic. While she published under her married name, her maiden name is definitely well known, as that is the name she went by in the books and in the TV series. This usage clearly outweighs any usage by the pilot, per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. (non-admin closure) Bradv 22:48, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Laura Ingalls → Laura Ingalls (disambiguation) – Should redirect to Laura Ingalls Wilder as the clear WP:PRIMARY TOPIC. Searching for "Laura Ingalls" renders 79,400 results through Google Books; subtract "Wilder" from the equation the result drastically falls by over 90% to just 6,610. I would expect that most people searching for Laura of Little House on the Prairie fame would merely search "Laura Ingalls", and they would be rather surprised to have to land on a disambiguation page. --Nevé–selbert 14:35, 28 November 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Bradv 21:28, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose: all of Laura Ingalls Wilder's significant work was published using her married name. I'm slightly confused by the nominators evidence as it appears to evidence against the move. Clicking on the 'Laura Ingalls minus Wilders' link shows that the vast majority are about Laura Ingalls (aviator). While the search for just 'Laura Ingalls' brings up a lot more hits that is because it includes all the times that 'Laura Ingalls Wilders' as a full name appears. Very few of these links appear to be talking about the author without using the Wilders part. In fact I'm inclined to suggest the counter move that Laura Ingalls (aviator) → Laura Ingalls, and that a hatnote be provided on that page to the author given there are only two articles. Ebonelm (talk) 21:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
- Out of curiosity Ebonelm, have you ever seen the TV series? Had it not been for this television series, many probably would never have heard about this writer. The show massively popularised her work. Your counter proposal is utterly bizarre in my view and would inevitably result in WP:R#PLA for most people. Most people thinking "Laura Ingalls" think about the 1970s hit TV show, which she was known for the most part by that name (since the majority of the show concerned her life pre-marriage).--Nevé–selbert 23:02, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
- I'm afraid not, that was a long way before my time. Ebonelm (talk) 10:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: When I did a search in the WP box, the suggestions were: (1) Laura Ingalls [disambig page] (2) Laura Ingalls Wilder (3) Laura Ingalls (aviator). The way I see it, there's no real need for the DA page. If that wasn't there, that would just leave 2 and 3. And then, if someone did just search "Laura Ingalls", it would be redirected to Laura Ingalls Wilder (which I think most people know is her married name). —Musdan77 (talk) 03:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
*Oppose The current set up is the most helpful and intuitive way of doing it, and the evidence cited supports the current set up and not the proposal. --MrStoofer (talk) 10:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
- Comparing the importance of Laura Ingalls Wilder to Laura Ingalls (pilot) is like comparing Jane Seymour to Jane Seymour (actress). I mean, sure the latter doesn't entirely pale in significance, but the former certainly has a superior long-term significance. Little House on the Prairie (TV series) was once a Monday night staple on NBC, and millions across the world have heard about this writer and her works by virtue of the show. To assert that the evidence cited is counterproductive doesn't make much sense (since pretty much all books referencing her childhood will almost certainly mention her later life and hence her married name). Over 90% of results related to "Laura Ingalls" mentions Laura Ingalls Wilder. If that isn't WP:PRIMARYTOPIC material, I don't know what is. Besides, they'll be a hatnote for anyone who wants information on the Nazi anyway.--Nevé–selbert 18:35, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
- Support. The author is frequently called just "Laura Ingalls" – including within her Little House books – and she's much more prominent than the only other article.[1] On Google Books, "Laura Ingalls" "Little House" returns 9x the hits of "Laura Ingalls" aviator. I went through 8 pages of hits for "Laura Ingalls" without finding a single reference for anyone but the author. This is a classic case for a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT.--Cúchullain t/c 18:31, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Cuchullain and CookieMonster755, but your search doesn't prove anything, other than that there is a partial match. When I click through your link to the writer and Little House on the Prairie none of the books are listed as being by 'Laura Ingalls' but by 'Laura Ingalls Wilder', your search does not exclude any time she is known by her full name (which I still contend is nearly all the time). You're search is the equivalent of arguing that 'Charles Dickens' is the primary topic of 'Charles' because when you search for "Charles" "A Christmas Carol" there are loads of books. You can't take the first two parts of a persons three word name and use that as evidence! You can produce all sorts of results with dodgy searches. Ebonelm (talk) 10:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- Ebonelm, that's not true. The author is "Laura Ingalls" in the Little House books. Books about the author, including this (p. 12-16), (this (p. 15-16), this, this, and this (p. 5), refer to her as "Laura Ingalls" when talking about her childhood. The TV version of her was also "Laura Ingalls".[2] It is as "Laura Ingalls" that the author is one of the best known characters in children's literature. Moreover, it it appears that references to Laura Ingalls Wilder under her birth name are more common than references of any kind to the Nazi aviator.--Cúchullain t/c 17:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- Cuchullain the book you reference to in your first link is literally titled "Becoming Laura Ingalls Wilder: The Woman behind the Legend", the second "Laura Ingalls Wilder: A Biography" (with 'Wilder' being in much larger writing than the rest of her name), the third "Laura Ingalls Wilder: A Writer's Life", the fourth "Laura Ingalls Wilder: A Storybook Life" and the fifth "Writings to Young Women from Laura Ingalls Wilder - Volume Two: On Life As a Pioneer Woman", none of these books drop the 'Wilder' part of her name how can you possibly think that this proves that the author is best known as simply Laura Ingalls? Of course she wasn't known by her married name before she was married, but she also didn't publish anything notable before her marriage either, that they used her maiden name in the section of the biography before she was married is perfectly unexpected and proves nothing. Her first Little Prairie book was published when she had already been married and been known as Laura Ingalls Wilder for 47 years! This is a picture of the cover of the first edition of Little House on the Prairie where is clearly reads Laura Ingalls Wilder. Ebonelm (talk) 22:33, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- Ebonelm, that's not true. The author is "Laura Ingalls" in the Little House books. Books about the author, including this (p. 12-16), (this (p. 15-16), this, this, and this (p. 5), refer to her as "Laura Ingalls" when talking about her childhood. The TV version of her was also "Laura Ingalls".[2] It is as "Laura Ingalls" that the author is one of the best known characters in children's literature. Moreover, it it appears that references to Laura Ingalls Wilder under her birth name are more common than references of any kind to the Nazi aviator.--Cúchullain t/c 17:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Cuchullain and CookieMonster755, but your search doesn't prove anything, other than that there is a partial match. When I click through your link to the writer and Little House on the Prairie none of the books are listed as being by 'Laura Ingalls' but by 'Laura Ingalls Wilder', your search does not exclude any time she is known by her full name (which I still contend is nearly all the time). You're search is the equivalent of arguing that 'Charles Dickens' is the primary topic of 'Charles' because when you search for "Charles" "A Christmas Carol" there are loads of books. You can't take the first two parts of a persons three word name and use that as evidence! You can produce all sorts of results with dodgy searches. Ebonelm (talk) 10:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- Support – per the comment made by Cuchullain; she is commonly refereed to as Laura Ingalls regarding her literature and is prominent figure within her field. According to page views, Laura Ingalls Wilder gets circa 2,000 views per day, while the aviator gets circa 25 views per day. The current setup is confusing readers and inconvenient; a hatnote can point to the aviator from Wilders page; WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT applies to this situation. CookieMonster755 𝚨-𝛀 22:06, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
- Support I have changed my mind after reading the discussion: I've been persuaded that Laura Ingalls Wilder is the primary topic for Laura Ingalls. --MrStoofer (talk) 16:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- @MrStoofer,given that you have changed you mind from oppose to support once already you might want to read my Charles Dickens analogy above where I demonstrate that a partial match of a name does not make it the WP:PRIMARY, no evidence has been presented that she is primarily known as just Laura Ingalls, and quite bizarrely all the attempts to show this have done the opposite and have proven that Wilder is an integral part of her name! Ebonelm (talk) 22:33, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.