Talk:League of Legends/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 22:26, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures criteria

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria - Y
• It contains copyright infringements - Y (earwig comes up clean)
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). - {{hold}}
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. - Y

Links

• Some refs have a linked publishers, others not. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:06, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
• Ref 145 (audience) has no content. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:06, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
• Ref 102 is dead. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:06, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Prose

Lede

• Could we condense the lede? 4 paragraphs is the max per WP:LEDE. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Condensed. Paragraphs two and three had a natural joining point The game has a large following on streaming platforms [...] the game's popularity has led to various [...]

• So, things like links and acronyms are seperate in ledes and the body. "multiplayer online battle arena (MOBA)" - as MOBA isn't used again in the lede, you don't need to put it in brackets. That also means that if you wish to use it in the body, you need to link and abbreviate in the body as well (on first usage). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done I didn't know this; thanks.

• My understanding of VG articles is that they start "X is a YEAR genre video game", so should have the date here Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done I actually knew about this, but it wasn't there originally, and my gut feeling was that it was strange to put it in because the game is still regularly patched. But done regardless; you're right. ImaginesTigers (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• players play on a team - this could be reworded... Something like players compete on... Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Changed to In League of Legends, players form a team of 5 and [...]. ImaginesTigers (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• In the main game mode on Summoner's Rift, the goal is to destroy the opposing team's Nexus, a structure that lies at the heart of their base and is protected by defensive structures. - is Summoner's Rift the name of the game mode, or is this the map? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: Summoner's Rift is both the name of the map, and the primary game mode. We had a discussion about this during the GOCE edit.

What about "The main game mode - Summoner's Rift - the goal..." which negates the confusion between game mode/map. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:23, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• maybe link PC? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• platforms like YouTube and Twitch - such as YouTube and Twitch Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• animated series - is this an anime? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: Based on the first line of the anime page, no. Arcane is being developed by one of Riot's close animation partners (they are French).
ImaginesTigers (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• such as K/DA, a K-pop girl group composed of four of League's champions - I think it is very worth mentioning this is a virtual girl group! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done BUT I will say that the group has performed live, and some of their songs have the singers using their real names. ImaginesTigers (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• link "open beta". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• The final paragraph is IMO the most important part, and could go at the bottom of the first para. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done, but if you'd have another look at the lead (because of above changes), it would be appreciated! ImaginesTigers (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

General

• Watch out for WP:SEAOFBLUE, where you have two or more links next to each other, such as "three-dimensional isometric perspective". Whilst these can be fine, I find them super ugly, as if there is an article on 3D isometrics. See if there is an alternative way to write this to avoid. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Gone in the edit. Visible in two directly adjacent screenshots. ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• Gameplay seems to start on what maps are available. I suggest the second paragraph about what a MOBA actually is would be more suitable first. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done The starting sections for Gameplay were not my writing. All of the referencing that I did for this section is in ARAM and Summoner's Rift, so I've deleted everything that was not repeated information. ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• The gameplay section itself is pretty much unsourced, could we get some citations for this area? There is one tag, but it isn't the only bit uncited. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done See above. ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• The maximum level is 18. - Borders on fancruft/WP:GAMEGUIDE. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Gone. ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• Is there a glossary link for "cooldown"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: Gone in the edit.

• (minions in lane and monsters in the jungle) - irrelevant Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• killing or helping to kill - what about "damaging"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Changed to Players begin each match with a small amount of gold and earn gold throughout the match by killing non-player enemies, killing or assisting in a kill on enemy players, selling items, and destroying enemy structures.

• (at the fountain - not important Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• Game modes is unsourced Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done. ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• The first two images need a better commentary, why are the images there? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: Done, I think. I updated Summoner's Rift (at the bottom) to reflect the changes.
ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• with high, consistent damage output at late stages in the gam - GAMEGUIDE. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done (I think), but that was me trying to paraphrase the source. Open to alternatives. ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• I think in general make sure there is at least something to cite at the end of a paragraph. "but offensive junglers are available." is currently uncited, for example. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Extrenuous, difficult to source, removed. ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• link single-player. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• Teamfight Tactics should be lower down on this list as it is currently listed as the second game mode, despite not being one. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• ARAM (All Random All Mid) - you've said this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• The section "Featured game modes" should probably read "Temporary game modes" Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: I've gone with 'Rotating game modes', if that's okay. Happy to change if it isn't.
ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• You say "Riot Games" in the gameplay a lot, might I suggest "the developer" instead? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• Champion classes - the list in this section is IMO GAMEGUIDE/CRUFT. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:28, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: I've received conflicting info about this. Not entirely sure how to reduce, especially given that the terminology is used within the article. Would appreciate any advice.
ImaginesTigers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Setting

• A lot of this is uncited. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
• I think a lot of this is fluff and cruft. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
• this link League of Legends § Development#Plot isn't really suitable. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
• Think about what actually needs to be said here, and merge with the plot section. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done I've merged the two sections, moving the referenced material into Development#Plot. I think it’s what should stay, given it is a change of development. The extended League lore is really not that relevant to why the majority of people play the game. ImaginesTigers (talk) 21:06, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Development

• The idea of a spiritual successor to Defense of the Ancients was that it would be a stand-alone game with its own engine instead of as another mod of Warcraft III, and began to materialize at the end of 2005 - who thought this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Made changes to clarify. ImaginesTigers (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• Company founders Brandon Beck and Marc Merill recruited Steve Feak, designer of the popular Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne mod Defense of the Ancients, and Steve Mescon, administrator of the map's support base, to develop League of Legends, about two months into the game's development - so they were brought into develop after development had started? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Based on the timeline laid out by the article, we are talking about two months after they recruited Jeff Jew, so about November 2006. ImaginesTigers (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• Might I suggest keeping the paragraphs reasonably similar in length? This section has a huge para, and then a small one. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

• Alistar, Annie, Ashe, Fiddlesticks, Jax, Kayle, Master Yi, Morgana, Nunu, Ryze, Sion, Sivir, Soraka, Teemo, Tristana, Twisted Fate, and Warwick - we really don't need to list them - keep this succinct Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: Will need to consult on this one. Watch this space.

• How is things that happened several years after release "early development"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Removed. This doesn't need to be here, and if it should be anywhere, it’s probably under League of Legends#Rotating game modes. ImaginesTigers (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• BTW, it's April Fools' Day, not Fool's. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Gone in the edit. See above. ImaginesTigers (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• The final two paragraphs are more like a release section, or a legacy section. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done See above. ImaginesTigers (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• The developer's modern approach to development began in 2014 - I think a sentence explaining what this means, and that "development" is an ongoing thing, not like regular games would be suitable. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done, clarified. Updated the entire paragraph. ImaginesTigers (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• Runeterra - you mention this as if we should know what it is. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Oops.  Done ImaginesTigers (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• (referred to as "summoners", a word still used for the main game mode, Summoner's Rift) - trivia. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:44, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

Revenue model

• Probably should be in release IMO (maybe development? Seems weird being its own section) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Agreed. Remnant from a previous iteration. ImaginesTigers (talk) 11:02, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• Players can purchase Riot Points (RP), an in-game currency, from the client's store. RP is used to purchase various in-game cosmetics, such as skins which modify the appearance of champions. An additional currency, Blue Essence (formerly Influence Points, 2009–2017), is earned through playtime and spent to acquire champions. A third currency – Orange Essence – is used to unlock champion skins, ward skins, summoner icons, and emotes via "Hextech Crafting", - condense. Can we not just say that they use in-game currency? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Reduced to There are three in-game currencies available in League. One can be purchased for real money, while the other is generated through playtime. A third currency is used to unlock champion skins, ward skins, summoner icons, and emotes via "Hextech Crafting", League's loot box system (references omitted). ImaginesTigers (talk) 11:02, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• to tally champion-specific milestones, which was criticized in the gaming press and by players. - why? This is probably the most interesing part. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Updated. ImaginesTigers (talk) 11:02, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Reputation

• abusive in-game behavior, or "toxicity" - is this a quote? Toxicity is a real word, so I'm unsure why it is written this way. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done This was my bad. At uni, we use ("term") to indicate that we will be using it specifically to refer to the previous definition. I'll remove the quotes. ImaginesTigers (talk) 11:05, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• This doesn't really need two subsections. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done My bad again. ImaginesTigers (talk) 11:05, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Release

• What does GOA stand for? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done No idea why it was capitalised? ImaginesTigers (talk) 11:15, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• What's a "gaming portal"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Removed. I can't work out how to phrase it, tbh, and I can't find any specific references re: how many servers they had (which is what I imagine it meant). ImaginesTigers (talk) 11:15, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Reception

• We don't generally have scores in both the prose and the reviews box. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done except in the case of Leah B. Jackson's re-review, which can't be recorded in the reviews box (as far as I know). ImaginesTigers (talk) 12:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• Might I suggest you check out Wikipedia:Copyediting reception sections? This one doesn't seem to be linked by element. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done This was really helpful. I've re-written the section to flow better. Let me know if it isn't enough. ImaginesTigers (talk) 12:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• Even if you link in a caption/table, you should still link in the prose (such as gamespy, etc). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done

I've done what I think I can do for this section. If there's more than needs work, let me know. ImaginesTigers (talk) 12:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Esports

• The sheer amount of coverage on esports (and also streaming), I'm amazed this section is so small. Why doesn't mention top players, big competitions etc. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: It has its own article, so it felt a bit strange to go into significant detail when there's another page specifically for that information. If you want me to expand it, I can do so, though.
ImaginesTigers (talk) 12:57, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Expanded the section to include Faker, and investment from businessmen not typically involved with esports. ImaginesTigers (talk) 21:29, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• I think that image needs to be made bigger. Try |upright= Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: Struggling with this one. I'm kinda useless, technically. Assistance would be appreciated.
ImaginesTigers (talk) 12:57, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Rest

• IP is a technical name, try series or franchise. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: I've wiki linked IP. Is that alright? Series and franchise don't feel right.
ImaginesTigers (talk) 20:51, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• You don't need to do a see also for things that already link in the article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done Removed. ImaginesTigers (talk) 20:51, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:26, 17 October 2020 (UTC)