Talk:Legend (Henry Cow album)

Merger proposal

Feel free to comment at Talk:Legend (disambiguation)#Merger proposal.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:42, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Queries

A query has been raised here about two additions made to the article:

1. The US and Japanese editions of this album were remixed (added here last month)
2. The 1998 CD editions were made from a vinyl copy (added here in May 2010)

Does anyone have any sources supporting these statements? —Bruce1ee^talk 09:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

It's been several weeks now since these queries were raised and there have been no response. I've removed the unsourced statements. —Bruce1ee^talk 13:43, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Sorry it's been so long but since my questions, I have since run three lines of investigation exploring these matters. The first two confirm or support the question of vinyl having been used for the CD source.

a. Steve Feigenbaum of Cuniform wrote to me about the question of what the CD was mastered from:

'I had a pristine Japanese press of it and lent it to the Bill Sharp, who was running ReR in the USA at that time. They used that. I was thanked in the credits.'

b. I then sent a copy to the engineer/producer Eroc in Hagen. He confirmed evidence of clicks, rumble and azimuth error in the recording - all signs of a vinyl rip. He provided visual evidence of these observations. I have his email, if required.

c. With regards the question of the Japanese vinyl being a remaster. I have sourced a copy of this now. I doubt the idea that it is remix. I would rather suggest a remaster at cutting stage, which I believe could easily produce the distinct improvements I can hear in sound.

Hope that helps.

Mr.datsun (talk) 00:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for confirming that vinyl was used as the CD source. Now, do you know of a published source stating this fact? I can see here that Steve and Bill were thanked, but there is no mention that vinyl was used as the source. I removed that information from the article because you (quite correctly) requested supporting evidence and none was forthcoming. To restore that information supporting evidence would be required, and for Wikipedia it should be from a reliable published source (see WP:SOURCES). There must be something out there. —Bruce1ee^talk 07:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

There's nothing I know of, only a post on a blog. I don't think that counts. I cannot find the original discussion where Steve Feigenbaum originally said it. Steve F himself, said he was too busy to help any more. All of my attempts to contact Bill Sharp or Tom Herman about this have failed.

I feel that now we know, it would be good to have this fact out in the open and seemingly ratified. I wonder - the only thing we can say as fact is that the album does not state that it was remastered. This is all the more clear because Unrest states that it was remastered whilst, Legend states 'original mix'.

Is there some way I could publish Eroc's email with the three pieces of analysis he produced? (I'm pretty sure he would be happy with that – but would check with him to make sure.) This could then be cited. Would that work? Mr.datsun (talk) 14:16, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

While blogs and emails are generally not accepted as reliable sources, they would help in justifying the addition of this information. I would be happy to use them and add a note saying that more reliable sources are required. Can you provide the link to the blog? Regarding Eroc's email, perhaps screenshots would be best (not pure text as that would be open to manipulation). But you will need to get his consent first to have it published on Wikipedia. If you send me a message using this link, I'll email you my email address, and you can send me the screenshots. Then I'll upload them into Wikipedia. Thanks for helping out. —Bruce1ee^talk 13:58, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

You are right in that I would have to ask Eroc. And suddenly that question makes me pause to think. Eroc did me a great favour, gave me his time. I know the facts now and would be happy to informally mention this in a forum context. But I feel I would be asking too much to say to Eroc that i want to publish his files and emails. Likewise I have been in email contact with Chris Cutler again, shared the files with him (with Eroc's previous consent). He graciously acknowledged my findings, and is interested in finding a better source for a future CD. And so, sorry to leave you in the lurch, but I'm going to have to stop there. I've bothered these people enough. Mr.datsun (talk) 18:07, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Not a problem – if you do find anything new, please let us know. Thanks for all your efforts. —Bruce1ee^talk 05:30, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Mr.datsun (talk) 08:16, 17 August 2015 (UTC) I have found the source of the information. A post be Steve Feigenbaum on Progressive Ears. Hope this helps. Regards Simon. http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/showthread.php/8105-Henry-Cow-Discussion?p=227529&highlight=legend#post227529

Thanks for that. I've restored the fact that the 1998 CD edition was transferred from a Japanese vinyl copy citing your source. As blogs and forums are not generally regarded as reliable sources, I've also requested a better source. —Bruce1ee^talk 11:40, 17 August 2015 (UTC)