Talk:Lenkov-verse

Article has been noticed!

@TheTVExpert:, as the other major contributor to the article thanks for your help! Lenkov found the article and said that our character tracking might even be better than what they do in house! Thanks again! TheDoctorWho (talk) 20:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho:, Great job to you too! TheTVExpert (talk) 20:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

@TheTVExpert:, I am creating a "Lenkov-Verse Timeline" that will hopefully be finished up in the next month or two. It's an actual timeline, listing dates and time-stamps for the three series (and the one NCIS L.A. episode featured) and is very extensive and detailed. Hopefully, you'll be able to use it somehow, someway in the future.98.234.37.54 (talk) 23:09, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

JAG / NCIS - verse instead?

This exists in the same universe as the JAG and NCIS series, so maybe it should be re-named or even combined with another article?70.112.229.80 (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Oppose: Yes they are in the same universe, as the article states, but the NCIS series are more interconnected with each other than with these series, and these series are more interconnected with each other than with the NCIS series. TheTVExpert (talk) 13:41, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Oppose: The five shows are in the same fictional world but they're two different "galaxies". MacGyver, Hawaii Five-0, and Magnum P.I. all make up one galaxy while NCIS and JAG make up the other. 98.234.37.54 (talk) 23:23, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Your terminology indicates that "Lenkov-verse" is a mis-nomer, then.70.112.229.80 (talk) 13:13, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Not really. At the time H50 connected with NCIS: LA, Lenkov didn't have a "universe" yet. He just crossed with somebody else's. When MacGyver and Magnum started up, Lenkov immediately connected H50 to both of them. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 11:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

So he kept appending shows to the pre-existing JAG / NCIS universe.70.112.229.80 (talk) 19:42, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

No. He had one episode of one of his shows cross over into the NCIS/JAG universe two years into H50's lifespan. No other crossovers exist into NCIS/JAG beyond that. Every other crossover has been within Lenkov's own show universe. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 19:53, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

MacGyver has had one crossover with Hawaii Five-0. This is equally weak as H50 crossing over with JAG/NCIS.70.112.229.80 (talk) 20:09, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

This is false. MacGyver and H50 have mentioned each other at various times:

• After serial killer Dr. Madison Gray escapes Hawaii (on 5-0) and goes on the run, she travels to California. (On 5-0).
• There, she begins to train a serial killer who mimics the Zodiac. MacGyver and the Phoenix Foundation track that killer and then contact Steve McGarrett to let him know that Gray was in their neck of the woods. (On MacGyver)
• After doing this, McGarrett and 5-0 goes after Gray, with McGarrett mentioning that the reason they knew Gray was bace was because the Phoenix Foundation notified him of the whereabouts of Madison Gray and that she was back in Hawaii and that she needed to be dealt with. (on 5-0)
• The crossover episode "Flashlight" (MacGyver) where The Phoenix travels to Hawaii -- and then sees Kamekona come to California to cater a party for MacGyver.
• Following "Flashlight", in the very next episode of H50, McGarrett tells Kono that The Phoenix Foundation gave her and Chin Ho Kelly high marks for their assistance.
• Later, in Season 4 of MacGyver, the new owner of the Phoenix Foundation says that he's friends with Jerry Ortega of the 5-0 Task Force (Jorge Garcia, who starred on H50 for half the show's run) and shows a picture of himself and Jerry. Jerry will eventually join the show (this coming season), having left Hawaii. (MacGyver)

Additionally, let's talk about H50 and Magnum's relationship:

• Three crossover episodes between Magnum and H50.
• 5-0's shrimp truck owner, Kamekona and 5-0's doctor, Noelani Cunha, have been recurring characters since Magnum started, appearing several times on the show. Additionally, Magnum and his friends have mentioned 5-0 numerous times outside their crossovers. Also, H50's characters will continue to show up on that show even as H50 has ended its run.

None of this is "weak". The only time the NCIS Universe ever crossed with H50 since "Touch of Death" was when some random agent from an unknown branch of NCIS (read: a character who had never been seen on ANY incarnation of ANY of the NCIS shows before and was created specifically to be on H50) showed up on H50 to assist 5-0. I don't know what your ultimate point is here but, as I told @TheTVExpert:, I have created a functional timeline of the three shows in the Lenkov-verse and have really done my research here. Simply put, Lenkov's three shows have far more in common with one another than they do with NCIS/JAG. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 23:49, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

No one's arguing against the idea that H50 and Magnum PI take place in the same reality, but again, these shows also take place in the same reality as JAG / NCIS.70.112.229.80 (talk) 13:20, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Furthermore this Wikipedia entry's existence relies solely on one article's use of the neologism "Lenkov-verse", which mentions H50 and Magnum PI but NOT MacGyver. "On CBS, “Magnum P.I.” moves to Fridays to team up with fellow Lenkov-verse entry “Hawaii Five-O.”"70.112.229.80 (talk) 13:25, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

First, nobody is arguing that the show doesn't take place in the same fictional world as NCIS and JAG. The issue is that Lenkov didn't create NCIS and JAG. Don Bellisario did. His "universe" is made up of JAG and the NCIS family of shows. Lenkov's "universe" and Bellisario's "universe" take place within the same "galaxy" of shows, if you will, but they're not in the same "universe". They are separate from one another. If you would like to make a page called "The Bellisarioverse" (which is what the fans call it), by all means, go ahead. This article makes note of this. What might be constructive is, perhaps, adding that Lenkov and Bellisario's universes crossed.

Secondly, there's more than one article which refers to "The Lenkov-verse" and mentions all three shows, like this one and this one and this one and this one and this one. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 14:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

More than likely because there is a Wikipedia entry that uses the term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reporting 70.112.229.80 (talk) 14:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

You've told us that Lenkov doesn't have a "universe". I showed you he does. You said there was only "one episode which crossed over with H50". That was false. Then, you completely ignored the half dozen H50/MacGyver episodes which basically refer to one another outside the MacGyver crossover. You said that there's "one article" calling it "The Lenkov-verse" and mentioning all three shows and I showed you that wasn't so. You're free to speculate all you'd like at this point but I think we're done with this debate. There IS a "Lenkov-verse". There are three shows inside of it. Again, if you feel that an article outlining Bellisario's JAG/NCIS universe is necessary, feel free to create one. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 16:01, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I have not mentioned creating a Wikipedia entry for the JAG / NCIS universe because that is suitable for a fan-driven Wiki. Similarly, I don't think this entry needs to exist, either. Furthermore, you either misunderstood or twisted my words. I stated that this entry is based on one writer's neologism. Other writers used the term "Lenkov-verse" because they got the idea from Wikipedia.70.112.229.80 (talk) 16:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Again...no. This article here coined the phrase, "The Peter Lenkov TV Universe" before this Wikipedia article's creation. So... AntiHeroDwight (talk) 22:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

So the standard is any random blog?70.112.229.80 (talk) 23:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I am not quite sure what goal you wish to achieve here. In the past few days, you've been all over the place with multiple bones of contention:

• First, you requested that the article be "renamed" or merged with another "article" -- but you don't tell anyone a) what it should be renamed to or b) which article it needs to be "combined with". Anyhow, two editors opposed this request.
• Then, you call the "universe" a "misnomer" without elaborating. Regardless, this was disproved.
• Then, when that failed, you claim that Lenkov was haphazardly attaching all his shows to Bellisario's without any evidence. This was disproved when you were told that one of Lenkov's shows crossed over into Bellisario's just once.
• Then, using that, you claimed that the "universe" claim was "weak" because "MacGyver only had one crossover" inside of Lenkov's "universe". I laid out, in bullet points, how that was false -- and you ignored it completely.
• Then you go back and repeat your original contention that H50, MacGyver, and Magnum all take place in the same fictional reality as NCIS/JAG -- even though that's irrelevant due to the fact that the article is about a TV universe created by Peter Lenkov and not Don Bellisario, something that had already been pointed out to you.
• Then you move the goalposts again and insinuate that the article was invalid because "only one article used the phrase "The Lenkov-verse". I showed you several articles that used the phrase.
• Then the goalposts move yet again and, now, your argument is that the "Lenkov-verse" didn't exist before the creation of this article and that the media was only using the phrase because of this Wiki article -- which is false and requires an abundance of speculation on your part.
• Now, the argument is that the source proclaiming that the universe exists is not up to Wikipedia standards because "it comes from a blog" -- even though Wikipedia:Blogs_as_sources claims that this particular instance is covered as it's simply reiterating what this reliable source said on April 3rd and this reliable source said on April 8th. Lastly, the claim is irrelevant anyhow. It's not a blog. It's an entertainment news site run by several journalists who are in the industry.

Again, if you feel that an article outlining the NCIS/JAG universe from Bellisario is necessary, create one. If you want the page deleted, take it up with the necessary parties here on Wikipedia. If your argument is that this thing is poorly-sourced, source it. But, please, pick a lane and stick to it. I feel like you're not here to build an encyclopedia and just want to argue at every single turn. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 00:03, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I started this section genuinely curious as to why someone bothered to create a Wikipedia entry. Your replies have only made me believe that this type of work is more suitable to https://lenkovverse.fandom.com/wiki/Lenkov-verse_Wiki rather than Wikipedia. I haven't moved goalposts; indeed, you should feel flattered that your replies made me think of even more reasons why this entry doesn't belong here.70.112.229.80 (talk) 04:28, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@70.112.229.80: And you have been told why this article exists...ad nauseam. You're going in circles now. Stop pretending that you haven't been informed -- and stop dodging my replies. You are doing that on purpose because you simply don't want to hear it -- only to restart the same argument with another editor as if we didn't just have this conversation. This will be the last time I'm going to point it out.

*At least two articles have mentioned that Lenkov's universe of three television shows is a thing before the article was created. Beyond that, even when they don't mention "The Lenkov-verse", there are several articles which point out Lenkov's shows crossing into one another. That's enough for this article to exist.

*And if you're still insisting on this, there are several television "universes" which exist and which have articles on Wikipedia. That's literally precedent for The Lenkov-verse article. I would suggest reading that article to familiarize yourself with the concept. One of the most famous is the one TheDoctorWho lists above: the Dick Wolf/Homicide universe. Another is the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Another is the DC Extended Universe as well as the Bellisario Universe, and the Arrowverse. All of these, save for Bellisario's "Universe" have articles here on Wikipedia.

You've already been instructed on what you need to do to dispute this. If your goal is to have this article deleted, then please follow the proper procedure to have it done -- but make it for a valid reason. It will be deleted if your reasoning is simply "I don't like it." If that's the case, don't bother. If you have some ideas on what could be done to improve the article, state them clearly and we can work together to make this work. You said you were "genuinely curious" as to why this article existed. Once again, you've been told why, several times. You don't appear to be getting it and you need to stop beating a dead horse. If you continue to do this, I will report you for Disruptive Editing. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 12:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Let's just put this in perspective with some other shows then. Hang with me for a second but scenario: we have the interconnected universes of the Law & Order (franchise), the Chicago (franchise), and the FBI franchise (doesn't have a page but the shows FBI (TV series) and FBI: Most Wanted. The Chicago franchise started with Chicago Fire (TV series) and eventually spun-off Chicago P.D. (TV series). The FBI franchise started with FBI and spun-off with Most Wanted. L&O franchise started with L&O and spun-off SVU. SVU has crossed over with P.D. and Fire, and P.D. has crossed over with Most Wanted. So in this instance the original L&O would compare to Jag, Chicago P.D. would compare to something in the Lenkov-Verse, and FBI is a third universe entering the scenario. Would you consider Most Wanted part of the L&O franchise and start loading up info on its page because Most Wanted had a crossover with FBI which had a crossover with P.D. which had a crossover with Fire which had a crossover with SVU? It makes no sense they're all independent universes of their own. This is the same thing the Lenkov-verse is it's own universe outside of the NCIS/Jag universe. As for why did someone (me) bother to create a Wikipedia entry. There's plenty of valuable reliable sources that prove the notability for this article, it's not too different from any of the other Universe articles. I'll even admit that there probably is some fancruft that could be skimmed from the article but the bulk of this is a solid entry. Thanks, TheDoctorWho (talk) 07:24, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

I simply wouldn't bother with such an endeavor at Wikipedia. These kinds of "universe" theories are better suited to fan wikis.70.112.229.80 (talk) 13:54, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Also, I would create a "Wolf-verse" entry that includes separate sections for the different franchises. There is no separate "Lenkov-verse", these shows were simply shoved into a pre-existing continuity.70.112.229.80 (talk) 14:00, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

You have been warned to stop being disruptive. You are not listening. You are ignoring everything that has been written above. You are not acting in good faith. It does not matter if you would "never do something" and you're either just saying "there's no Lenkov-verse" to troll or you're an absolute contrarian. If you wish to contribute to this article, do so in a constructive manner.AntiHeroDwight (talk) 14:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

You guys know who created the original Magnum, PI? Wait for it ... Donald Bellisario. ^_^70.112.229.80 (talk) 16:32, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Well aware. I was a kid when it came out and a teen when it ended and I watched every single episode. However, he has nothing to do with the reboot (save for a "based on the original" credit) which was produced by ... wait for it ... Peter Lenkov. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 13:39, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Lenkov Controversy

Here's an article that goes a LOT more in depth to the whole Lenkov situation. I'm hoping to expand on it at some point if no one beats me to it, there's definitely enough for it to have it's own subsection on the page, possibly it's own article if I can find enough sources and stuff to right about. TheDoctorWho (talk) 07:44, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho: Let me know if you need any help with this. TheTVExpert (talk) 14:53, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

He got fired, that's all. It merits a mention on his biography but not an entire Wikipedia entry, which would largely regurgitate articles published by Vanity Fair and The Hollywood Reporter.70.112.229.80 (talk) 19:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I would make a sub-section in this article and maybe name it "Future", then mention the firing and the people taking over. Beyond that, I'm not sure it's a saga in need of an article. Just put everything you find in VF and the HP in Lenkov's article (not this one). AntiHeroDwight (talk) 00:27, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I said possibly if I can find enough sources if those are the only two then it's not possible, a subsection is all I'd be writing. TheDoctorWho (talk) 07:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Please don't, you would simply be regurtitating the articles. The important points are that Lenkov treated people badly and that he was finally fired. This information has already been added to his Wikipedia entry.70.112.229.80 (talk) 13:57, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

There's way to write sections and properly source them without directly copying the sources, otherwise the entirety of Wikipedia wouldn't exist. TheDoctorWho (talk) 05:07, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Much of Wikipedia is useless regurgitation bordering on plagiarism and shouldn't exist in the first place.70.112.229.80 (talk) 05:43, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

DoctorWho, we'll find a way to work it in. I'm gonna reformat this article a bit. I'm just compiling sources right now. I've found several that might work for a "Reception" section as well as a "Future" section but I don't think we're gonna have a realistic shot at how Lenkov's departure will impact the Lenkov-verse until we see what happens with MacGyver and Magnum in the fall. I know Lenkov had planned an "Avengers-like" universe crossover with all three of the shows within his universe and I know Jorge Garcia is going to join the cast of MacGyver. I'm just waiting on more interviews with the new producers. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 06:15, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

@AntiHeroDwight: is Jorge Garcia going to join the cast of MacGyver as a main character, I just thought it was just a guest appearance? TheDoctorWho (talk) 06:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho: I could be wrong but I thought he was going to join the cast or at least be a recurring character. He'd fit right in with the MacGyver cast, but that's personal opinion. Regardless, it would be nice to see him with the cast. I need to find the article I read. That would shed more light on things. AntiHeroDwight (talk) 06:30, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

@AntiHeroDwight: I agree, he would fit in as a series regular with the rest of the cast. This is the original announcement I read. TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Possible Copyright Issue

@AntiHeroDwight: it looks like File:Macgyver-aloha-jack-rifle.jpg this image might be a copyright issue. You uploaded it to commons but that's only for images that are already free, that you have permission to upload, or that you own the rights to and are publishing under a creative commons license. Especially since the description reads ©2016 CBS Broadcasting, Inc. All Rights Reserved. I actually like the use of the image and think it fits, since the image is discussed on the page I think it could fall under WP:FAIRUSE (specifically NFCI #9 but it would have to be uploaded on enwiki under the appropriate license instead of on commons. TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho:Good call. Sorry about that. I suck at photos. Somebody is gonna have to teach me to properly upload and cite the photo under WP:FAIRUSE. Is there any way you can remedy it? I am clueless here. :( AntiHeroDwight (talk) 04:36, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Shanebrennanredcarpet.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:37, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Macgyver-aloha-jack-rifle.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:24, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Lenkov-verse Chronological Timeline done...

Hey, @TheDoctorWho: and @TheTVExpert:, after three months, I have finally completed my chronological timeline for the entire "Lenkov-verse". You can check it out here. :) https://www.thecomicboard.com/threads/the-lenkov-verse-h50-macgyver-magnum-p-i-reboots-timeline.14730/ AntiHeroDwight (talk) 03:20, 29 August 2020 (UTC)