Talk:Leopold Mozart

Comment

Isn't it questionable to include a reference to some ostensible truth revealed by "modern psychoanalysis" since it is a field that is quite controversial and pseudoscientific? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.213.33 (talk) 10:15, 17 May 2006

Hello Anon, could you please be more specific? I looked in the article and couldn't find any mention of psychoanalysis. Opus33 (talk) 18:48, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Expulsion from university

Does anyone know why Leopold was expelled from university? 83.5.249.115 08:13, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Apparently he attended it poorly. He was quite calm when he summoned by the directors and expelled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.79.236.35 (talk) 02:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Moving a passage to this talk page

Hello, I've just moved this from the article to this page:

Most critics would agree that he reached a high point of his creativity around 1760. After that, the amount of time he put into composing as well as teaching violin gradually decreased until 1771, when he wrote his last composition. He did, however still concentrate on his job as Kappellmeister as well as many of his and his son's concerts all around the world. He did however mention that he hated those in a letter to his daughter. He wrote, "Every day there are concerts; and the whole time is given up to teaching, music, composing and so forth. I feel rather out of it all. If only the concerts were over! It is impossible for me to describe the rush and bustle."

The first two sentences repeat material given earlier. Leopold wasn't a Kapellmeister. His son didn't perform all over the world, just parts of Western Europe.

The letter is quoted out of context: it comes from the time (1785) of Leopold's visit to Wolfgang and Constanze in Vienna. Most of the letters from this visit indicate that Leopold was very happy to observe his son's success at first hand; for discussion, see Solomon 1995, 346. The letter quoted here was an exception; it expressed the old man's fatigue at following around after Wolfgang on a daily basis, during a very hectic phase of the latter's career. Opus33 16:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

References

Johann Georg Mozart

An article was just added on Leopold's father. Is anything of substance actually known about him? If so, please add it to keep the article from otherwise very likely deletion. If not, please change to a redirect. DGG (talk) 17:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This article is clearly B-class; but is arguably defective in its treatment of him as a composers. My full review is on the comments page; questions or comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 14:17, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Amadeus

Isn't his portrayal by Roy Dotrice in "Amadeus" worthy of inclusion in this article?

Hello, and please don't yell. Typically, when classical music figures are referenced by popular culture items, we report this in the articles about the popular culture item, not the classical music figure. This normally will best serve the reader seeking information. Opus33 (talk) 18:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Grave

Leopold Mozart was not buried in the grave in the St. Sebastian cemetery, but in the communal crypt. See Walther Brauneis: "Am Grabe Leopold Mozarts. Tod und Begräbnis von Mozarts Vater im Spiegel der Berchtold zu Sonnenburgschen Familienchronik." In: Andrea Lindmayr-Brandl, Thomas Hochradner (Hrsg.): Auf eigenem Terrain. Beiträge zur Salzburger Musikgeschichte. Festschrift Gerhard Walterskirchen zum 65. Geburtstag. Selke Verlag, Salzburg 2004, ISBN 3-901353-32-1, S. 401–416.--80.121.81.187 (talk) 21:08, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. This article is extremely weak, because as usual it is based on the weakest available literature (Solomon, Halliwell), without taking into account the most important German standard works (Mančal, Valentin, etc.).--Suessmayr (talk) 21:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Discovered Talent

The section on the teaching of Amadeus seems to imply that Amadeus had some kind of natural born gift for music and that his talent was 'discovered' rather than learnt. Nowadays there's much research that shows that there is no such thing natural born talent. His talent was a result of his early contact with music and his father's teaching methods. There is a section in the book 'Bounce' by Matthew Syed regarding Mozart's abilities and the myth of child prodigy. Perhaps this section could be re-worded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.22.82 (talk) 15:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

If "there is no such thing natural born talent", then there's no such thing as talent because that's what the word "talent" means. Talent by definition is not "lernt". Technique is learned or otherwise aquired. In any case, the synthesis you seeme to be proposing would constitute "original research". TheScotch (talk) 15:22, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Leopold Mozart/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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==Composers Project Assessment of Leopold Mozart: 2008-12-18== This is an assessment of article Leopold Mozart by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. ===Origins/family background/studies=== Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? Good ===Early career=== Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? Good, but not much on his compositions. ===Mature career=== Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? Good, but not much on his compositions. ===List(s) of works=== Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. Surviving or known works not listed. ===Critical appreciation=== Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? Assessments of his competence are included; contemporaneous reception of his music (public and critical) is lacking. ===Illustrations and sound clips=== Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) Images; no sound. ===References, sources and bibliography=== Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article is referenced, copious inline citations. ===Structure and compliance with WP:MOS=== Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) Good, except the lead is short ===Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review=== Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) ===Summary=== This biography reads like the story of a famous composer's father. Leopold's status as composer is somewhat poorly treated in this article. The biographic portion deals only very superficially with his composing (although I think it is right that the focus generally remain on the more notable progeny); The Musical Works section is brief, and does not list what is known of them. (I find it hard to judge, from what is written, how much scholarship about his music has made it into appropriate secondary sources.) The article is well-written, and provides copious inline citations (although there are whole paragraphs that are missing them). The lead should be longer -- 3 paragraphs at least. Article is B-class. Magic♪piano 14:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 21:54, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

What to call the university he attended in Salzburg?

A bit of bookshelf-checking:

• Maynard Solomon: "Benedictine University"
• Hermann Abert (2008): "University of Salzburg"
• Cliff Eisen (Cambridge Mozart Encyclopedia): "Salzburg Benedictine University"

I put in "Benedictine University" (now University of Salzburg), which hopefully will do no harm to accuracy. Opus33 (talk) 22:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Who is "Nannerl"?

The article refers to Nannerl, but does not explain who she is. It implies it might be Wolfang's sister, but should explicitly state that it is a nickname for Maria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TwoPairsOfBoots (talk • contribs) 14:19, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Infobox

Controversially, as per consensus about Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's father in infobox, but Thrakkx added the infobox since 29 March 2020, but isn't stable and there is a consensus it recommends no infobox. --Aesthetic Writer (talk) 22:28, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't know what your understanding of "stable" is. It has been in place for almost two years, and works fine, and found no objections, that's what I call stable. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:34, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

I have the ongoing discussion for Wolfgang's infobox. --Aesthetic Writer (talk) 23:02, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

First, it is ridiculous to assume that the consensus achieved at one article also applies to another article because the two are related—that is absolutely not the case.

Second, the existence of this article's infobox has not been controversial. I added it two years ago (albeit back when I first started editing and knew nothing about the sensitivity of infoboxes) and there has not been one peep in the edit history or on this page until you appeared.

Third, while WP:CMINFOBOX does say that an infobox must first have talk page consensus before being added, let me point you to WP:CONLEVEL, which states that consensus achieved at a small scale cannot override consensus on a larger scale. The larger-scale consensus I am referring to here is WP:IMPLICIT, which (as I said before) says that an edit that remains stable becomes the current consensus.

Finally, if at the end of this discussion we determine the infobox should stay, the article now satisfies the requirements of CMINFOBOX. As far as I'm concerned, the infobox should stay. Leopold is a music teacher, and the infobox summaries him well. Thrakkx (talk) 02:43, 10 January 2022 (UTC)