Talk:Les cinq saisons
Latest comment: 6 months ago by Sergecross73 in topic Correct title
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Untitled
editThere is a bug in Mediawiki here - on the translated version the numbers skip number 2. The Wiki code is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Corwin7 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Correct title
editIn my opinion Si on avait besoin d'une cinquième saison is the correct title. Les cinq saisons is simply an abbreviated form. Tenebra Blu (talk) 13:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- This was confirmed to me today by Michel Normandeau one of the band members. The correct name is the longer one. JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 01:42, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hey JeanPaulGRingault, that's cool that you know Normandeau personally. However, Wikipedia requires properly-sourced references for this type of information; hearsay cannot be used. In this case, all of the publications of the era (Billboard, RPM, Record World, Montreal Gazette, La Presse, Le Soleil, etc) all refer to the album as Les cinq saisons. That is in addition to the album covers, sleeves and center labels. If you can find a published source (maybe like an interview with the band) in which they specifically say that the longer title is the official one, then it can be changed. I could find no such evidence from my extensive research. I also plan to expand the article considerably from this research.--Bricks&Wood talk 03:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- This one, https://www.journaldequebec.com/2023/10/12/pres-de-50-ans-apres--si-on-avait-besoin-dune-cinquieme-saison--judi-richards-boucle-la-boucle-avec-harmonium-symphonique, or this one https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/725987/harmonium-rolling-stone-prog-rock and https://www.lapresse.ca/arts/musique/201506/18/01-4879158-harmonium-dans-le-top-50-du-rolling-stone.php. Same thing as The Beatles' homonymous album always being referred to as the White Album. I assure you, it is the name of the album, every long term fan in Québec knows this. JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 14:54, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- None of the three sources you provided mention that Les cinq saisons is an abbreviated title from the longer one. The results on Newspapers.com, BANQ, and other music magazine databases of the era are 95% for Les cinq saisons. The only results that show the longer title are modern publications (post-2000) that were likely influenced by this Wikipedia page's incorrect title. This is not at all like The Beatles, as "the white album" is a nickname that does not appear on the release, whereas Les cinq saison is the title that appears on the release, in record company databases, in advertisements, and in all of the publications from the 1970s. It is also the official title listed in the Canadian Recording Industry Association for sales certification, and that's title listed when it was nominated for a Juno Award in 1976. No offense, but your assurance is not worthy in this case. Wikipedia goes by reliable and notable published sources, not hearsay (or what you and your friends call an album), and in the case of confusion, like you tried pointing out, the decision lays on the majority, which is overwhelmingly weighted towards Les cinq saisons. Bricks&Wood talk 15:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- All the articles I gave you have the title as such. On the inside cover of the album, it is clearly written Si on avait besoin d'une cinquième saison Harmonium. If nobody in these articles mention that Les cinq saisons is the abbreviated title, it is because it was irrelevant (but check out this one ...https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1778593/premier-videoclip-harmonium-symphonique-vert). This abridged title, was probably seen as a better sell, easier to remember and shorter to say and write. I, myself, use the short title when talking about that album. But, I repeat, every long term fan in Québec knows that it is not the true title. If, as you say, “the decision lays on the majority, which is overwhelmingly weighted towards Les cinq saisons”, it still doesn't make it true. You are making a mistake. JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 16:00, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I know its a primary source, but he is the main creator, in Fiori's biography S'enlever du chemin written by Louise Thériault in 2013, this album is discussed between the pages 135 and 151 and is cleary and often named Si on avait besoin d'une cinquième saison. On page 148, I quote: Les ...cinq saisons (c'est dans cette version écourtée qu'est généralement désigné l'album)... (it is in this shortened version that the album is generally referred to). JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- In addition to that, saying that Si on avait besoin d'une cinquième saison is a subtitle is not confirmed by sources. The album has not a title and a subtitle, it has two different main titles, a long form and a short form. We have to understand which is the primary title. In my opinion the sources prove that the long title is the primary one, so the page should be titled accordingly. --Tenebra Blu (talk) 14:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I know its a primary source, but he is the main creator, in Fiori's biography S'enlever du chemin written by Louise Thériault in 2013, this album is discussed between the pages 135 and 151 and is cleary and often named Si on avait besoin d'une cinquième saison. On page 148, I quote: Les ...cinq saisons (c'est dans cette version écourtée qu'est généralement désigné l'album)... (it is in this shortened version that the album is generally referred to). JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- All the articles I gave you have the title as such. On the inside cover of the album, it is clearly written Si on avait besoin d'une cinquième saison Harmonium. If nobody in these articles mention that Les cinq saisons is the abbreviated title, it is because it was irrelevant (but check out this one ...https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1778593/premier-videoclip-harmonium-symphonique-vert). This abridged title, was probably seen as a better sell, easier to remember and shorter to say and write. I, myself, use the short title when talking about that album. But, I repeat, every long term fan in Québec knows that it is not the true title. If, as you say, “the decision lays on the majority, which is overwhelmingly weighted towards Les cinq saisons”, it still doesn't make it true. You are making a mistake. JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 16:00, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- None of the three sources you provided mention that Les cinq saisons is an abbreviated title from the longer one. The results on Newspapers.com, BANQ, and other music magazine databases of the era are 95% for Les cinq saisons. The only results that show the longer title are modern publications (post-2000) that were likely influenced by this Wikipedia page's incorrect title. This is not at all like The Beatles, as "the white album" is a nickname that does not appear on the release, whereas Les cinq saison is the title that appears on the release, in record company databases, in advertisements, and in all of the publications from the 1970s. It is also the official title listed in the Canadian Recording Industry Association for sales certification, and that's title listed when it was nominated for a Juno Award in 1976. No offense, but your assurance is not worthy in this case. Wikipedia goes by reliable and notable published sources, not hearsay (or what you and your friends call an album), and in the case of confusion, like you tried pointing out, the decision lays on the majority, which is overwhelmingly weighted towards Les cinq saisons. Bricks&Wood talk 15:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- This one, https://www.journaldequebec.com/2023/10/12/pres-de-50-ans-apres--si-on-avait-besoin-dune-cinquieme-saison--judi-richards-boucle-la-boucle-avec-harmonium-symphonique, or this one https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/725987/harmonium-rolling-stone-prog-rock and https://www.lapresse.ca/arts/musique/201506/18/01-4879158-harmonium-dans-le-top-50-du-rolling-stone.php. Same thing as The Beatles' homonymous album always being referred to as the White Album. I assure you, it is the name of the album, every long term fan in Québec knows this. JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 14:54, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hey JeanPaulGRingault, that's cool that you know Normandeau personally. However, Wikipedia requires properly-sourced references for this type of information; hearsay cannot be used. In this case, all of the publications of the era (Billboard, RPM, Record World, Montreal Gazette, La Presse, Le Soleil, etc) all refer to the album as Les cinq saisons. That is in addition to the album covers, sleeves and center labels. If you can find a published source (maybe like an interview with the band) in which they specifically say that the longer title is the official one, then it can be changed. I could find no such evidence from my extensive research. I also plan to expand the article considerably from this research.--Bricks&Wood talk 03:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Bricks&Wood did a fine job with his contributions on this and other pages of the band. But knowing he was absolutely wrong, I politely at first and later more forcefully challenged his decision of renaming this album. He did not accept my valid sources then ignored all my later attemps to communicate with him. I do not want to waste my time fixing this because he surely will continue to revert me. This was very frustrating. JeanPaulGRingault (talk) 12:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- User:JeanPaulGRingault I've reported the discussion about the title to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music. Let's see what other users think. --Tenebra Blu (talk) 15:55, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Reminder: Wikipedia names articles on their WP:COMMONNAME, not necessarily the "official name". I have no idea what the common name is in this instance, just trying to steer the discussion back in the right direction... Sergecross73 msg me 18:56, 11 April 2024 (UTC)