Talk:Leslie Hylton

Article development

I have notified WikiProject Cricket that I am hoping to develop this into a full-scale biographical article. If anyone has access to useful source material, I'd be pleased to hear from them. Brianboulton (talk) 13:08, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Do you have access to the relevant Wisdens? Johnlp (talk) 17:23, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I have records for every first-class match that Hylton played in, lots of match reports, in fact all I need to cover his playing career. The kind of stuff I'd like won't be so easily found and may not even exist. For example, what Jamaican clubs did he play for? Did he receive any early coaching? Did he have any continued involvement with cricket after retiring from the first-class game? Did any of his colleagues visit him when he was in prison? Did any offer character testimony at his trial? Jeffrey Stollmeyer's autobiography is the only book that appears to have anything to say about Hylton, and then only briefly. I don't think Headley wrote his memoirs; I've scoured Manley's history for some very slim pickings. But maybe there is a book or two that I haven't discovered. Brianboulton (talk) 17:42, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I've completed the article on the basis of the sources I have, and will continue to search for more, although I am not hopeful of finding anything significant. There are other online pages, but nothing that meets our RS criteria or presents fresh information. I would be grateful if someone with the necessary expertise would reduce the size of infobox image, which does not seem susceptible to px controls. Brianboulton (talk) 20:22, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Review

BB, you asked for an informal review, à la PR, here. These are my few gleanings:

• Test series 1934–35 v. England

• the MCC team which visited – old-fashioned grammarians would favour "that" for "which" here, though on this very topic Fowler admitted that people took less notice of grammarians than the latter might imagine.
• Second para: the last sentence is interesting but is it all that relevant to the subject of this article?

• Marriage and domestic life

• "over-ridden" – not hyphenated by the OED

• Appeals, petitions, execution

• his former playing colleague Jeffrey Stollmeyer – this is the third time we have the name in full. Perhaps just surname here?

And that's all I can find to carp at. As to the bigger picture, the article seems to me perfectly proportioned, each section the right sort of length and giving all the requisite information without excessive detail. The tone is neutral: the facts are left to speak – eloquently – for themselves. Illustrations must have been difficult, and I can't think how you could have improved on what you've got here. The prose is a pleasure to read – not a purple passage to be seen (unlike that of some of us, ahem!) A vintage Boulton piece, in fact. – Tim riley talk 13:40, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Postscript: I've just turned to Jeffrey Stollmeyer's article. More bloodshed, God save us! I see his forename is given there as "Jeff" rather than in full. I just mention it; pray ignore ad lib. Tim riley talk 16:40, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for this generous review. I have by and large attended to the adjustments you suggest. I believe the article probably needs a cricketing person to give it the once over, and I may approach Sarastro. Maybe the sourcing and images need some looking at, too. I'll try and get some interest going, before I decide what if anything I want to do with the article. Brianboulton (talk) 22:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Although Sarastro is, unfortunately, from Yorkshire, he is unsurpassed as a cricket expert in these parts, me judice, and I think your idea is v. sound. Tim riley talk 20:32, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I have very little to add to the above, but there are three things that caught my eye:

Lead

• "that included Learie Constantine and Manny Martindale": were there only these three? If so, it should be 'comprised', not 'included'?

• I have clarified, with "also included", which I think works. Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Test series 1934–35

• First mention of Constantine and Martindale since the lead – fill name and link?

• Done Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

England tour, 1939

• It may be worth checking the Cardus quote: "unmistakenly" seems an odd word – I'd expect to see "unmistakably" instead

• Indeed yes - well spotted. Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

That's it. An interesting, if rather sad, article. - SchroCat (talk) 11:38, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for giving this your time. It is, as you say, a sad story – in line with my more recent specialism, I fear. I intend to ask the cricketing guru Sarastro to take a look, after which I'll decide if I want to take it further. Meantime I'm most grateful for your interest. Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Comments

Lead

• "Lurline Hylton's ambitions to be a dress designer led to long absences in New York fashion schools" - perhaps, "led to long absences at fashion schools in New York"?

• Done

• "Roy Francis, a reputed philanderer" - I don't have access to the sources and I'm sure this is what they say, but it reads slightly oddly to me. Assuming he had a profession/job other than philanderer, perhaps, "Roy Francis, an accountant/warehouseman/whatever and reputed philanderer,..."?

• Unfortunately the sources do not specify Mr Francis's trade or profession, merely that he was a notorious womaniser. Brianboulton (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Family background and early life

• "on the death of his aunt, he left school" - his aunt's not been mentioned previously. Perhaps, and I'm guessing, "on the death of his aunt with whom he lived after his sister's demise, he left school..."?

• The aunt is mentioned in the previous line, as the sister of Hylton's mother. Brianboulton (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

• "It was the normal course of events that black, uncoached players such as Hylton should emerge as bowlers rather than batsmen" - this may well be where my complete lack of understanding of cricket is showing, but I don't follow this. Is it because, uncoached, it is easier to develop as a bowler rather than an batsman, or is it because cricket teams were also racially stratified and batsmen were higher up the pecking order than bowlers? Either way, I think it would help to expand/clarify this if the sources allow.

• The sources provide little help beyond the information that I've used, but in essence your analysis is correct; batting was the sphere of the gentleman while the lower orders were expected to carry the bowling workload. This was true of cricket the world over - in England the top batsmen were usually upper-class amateurs while the paid professionals did most of the bowling. In Jamaica, class-consciousness and racial stratification were joint factors; a dark-skinned working class lad who aspired to cricket would have been expected to bowl as his entry to the sport. If he could bat a bit as well, that was a bonus. Brianboulton (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Early matches

• "the West Indies' debut Test series, to be played against in England in 1928" - either the "against" or the "in" shouldn't be there.

• Done

England tour, 1939

• "The chief cricket correspondent of the Daily Gleaner suggested" - link Daily Gleaner, I think it's the first mention? You might do the same with the Manchester Guardian in the next para.

• Done

Marriage and domestic life

• "In the racially-conscious and class-ridden Jamaican society, Hylton ranked well below the Roses in terms of education and social standing" - the second part of the sentence supports the "class-ridden" element of the first part, but the "racially-conscious" element? Was there also a racial element to her parents' dislike of Hylton, (see Cite 14 in the Early matches section)?

• Yes, almost certainly. As mentioned earlier, Hylton was very black indeed. The sources are not informative about Lurline's skin tone, but the inference is that she and her family were lighter-skinned, hence the parental disapproval. Brianboulton (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Trial, verdict, sentence

• "MacGregor had a reputation for strictness" - strictness seems a little weak, given the sentence was death by hanging. Would the sources support "severity"?

• Yes, done.

• "the bedroom scene in the early hours of 6 May, which, the prosecution suggested was a fabrication" - I hesitate, given my poor grasp of commas!, but is one necessary here? Or should there be another after "suggested,"?

• Sorted

• "this indicated calculation, rather than an action of blind rage" - perhaps, "this indicated calculation, rather than an act of blind rage"?

• Done

Appeals, petitions, execution

• "and a petition requesting this clemency was arranged" -not sure the "this" is necessary.

• Done

Aftermath

• "but gave no details as to the manner of his death; only many years later, an addendum recorded that he was executed for murder" - perhaps, "but gave no details as to the manner of his death; only many years later, was an addendum included recording that he was executed for murder"?

• On balance I prefer the existing version. Brianboulton (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

• "Whitaker sums up Hylton's personal tragedy thus" - is the "personal tragedy" Whitaker's voice, or Wikipedia's? I have just a slight sense that the article's "sympathies" may be thought to lie with Hylton rather than with his murdered wife? Perhaps just, "Whitaker sums up Hylton's fate thus..."?

• Done

• "As of 2019, capital punishment remained legal... but it has remained unused as at early 2019" - do we need the repetition of 2019 at the beginning and at the end? Perhaps, "Capital punishment remains legal...but it has remained unused as at early 2019"?

• Done

It reads wonderfully and, for one who knows nothing of cricket, is quite comprehensible! With the single exception I mentioned in the Family background and early life section, none of the "cricket" passages caused me any head-scratching, nor did I find them excessively detailed. It is indeed a sad tale and, while Lurline was unquestionably the victim, perhaps there was more than one. I very much hope you do decide to take the article onwards - it certainly warrants it - and look forward to commenting at PR/FAC. All the very best. KJP1 (talk) 07:14, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for this thorough review. I have adopted almost all of your suggested prose tweaks, and have addressed the other points that you have raised. I'll wait a while before deciding whether to take this to FAC, but your comments are most encouraging. Brianboulton (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2019 (UTC)