Talk:Let Her Burn

Keep it up.

Why do we need to get rid of the page, why can't we just let it stay up? There's a bunch of other pre-release pages for albums, so whyy do we have a problem with this one? Sorbet Kid (talk) 16:34, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• @Sorbet Kid: The appropriate place to express this concern is in the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Let Her Burn. BD2412 T 16:44, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree. [redacted] It's anticipated so let it stay Dinah5667 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@Dinah5667: Please remember this is not a forum and personal attacks, such as the one above, are not allowed. I will proceed to remove part of it. Bedivere (talk) 23:20, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Tour dates

The following table was removed from the article by User:Knowledgekid87 based on the assertion that it was "not needed". While I am not convinced that there is such a test for inclusion of content in Wikipedia, I would note that readers process information in various ways, and some will find a table to be a more useful organization of information. I propose that the table be restored to the article. Please note that I have added the newly announced London date in July. BD2412 T 19:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I just don't see how a handful of vague dates and locations is helpful here. I did find WP:NOTADVERT, which states "Wikipedia articles about a person, company, or organization are not an extension of their website, press releases, or other social media marketing efforts. External links to commercial organizations are acceptable if they identify notable organizations which are the topic of the article." I think readers can just as easily access the information via the external links provided. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Knowledgekid87: If WP:NOTADVERT prohibited what you describe as "a handful of vague dates and locations", then I'm sure Wikipedia would not have literally thousands of articles containing exactly such tables. We would not have, just for this year for example, exactly the same kind of presentation at:

• The Eras Tour#Shows
• Rammstein Stadium Tour#Shows
• Born Pink World Tour#Tour dates
• Janet Jackson: Together Again#Tour dates
• We're F'N' Back! Tour#Tour dates
• Continue as a Guest#Recording, release, and promotion
• Keep Your Courage#Release and promotion
• Portals (Melanie Martinez album)#Tour dates
• This Stupid World#Release and promotion
• What's Rock and Roll?#Tour dates.

Should all of those be deleted? BD2412 T 19:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Koavf and 03md: As you have added comparable tables of tour dates to Continue as a Guest and What's Rock and Roll?, respectively, your perspective on the permissibility of including such a table may be useful here. Cheers! BD2412 T 00:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

These shouldn't be deleted, as they are relevant, sourced (assuming they are sourced) information about how an album is promoted or what happens on a tour. It's extra puzzling to think that we're going to have an article about a tour and not mention where and when the artist was on the tour. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:59, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@BD2412: I knew this would go into whataboutism, but my opinion stands. It would apply as "Wikipedia articles about a person, company, or organization are not an extension of their website, press releases, or other social media marketing efforts." You haven't stated how this wouldn't apply? The sources used are press releases announcing tour dates, it is a marketing effort to get people to go to the artist's shows. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:55, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Tour dates aren't extensions of websites, press releases, or other social media marketing efforts. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:33, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Which source in this article do you think is a "press release"? Sources with editorial policies appear to have seen fit to publish all of this. Also, you are confusing internal consistency across the encyclopedia for whataboutism. WP:Some stuff exists for a reason. BD2412 T 21:23, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I want to add that I feel this would only apply to artists who have upcoming tours. I have no issue with past tour information as that is covered by WP:RS in retrospect. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:00, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

In this case, 75% of the tour dates are "past tour information as that is covered by WP:RS in retrospect". So what do we do, just cover the past dates and pretend the planned future dates have not also been reported in RS? Not cover any of the dates until all have been completed, despite the existence of reviews and the like? You said on my talk page that "the information is already covered in prose"—why, then, is it permissible to include a textual description of the information, but not the standard table? BD2412 T 21:02, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

If there is nothing new to say in this discussion, I will restore the table forthwith in 24 hours. BD2412 T 18:53, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Date	City	Country	Venue
February 4	Dublin	Ireland	Green Room – The Academy
February 6	Glasgow	Scotland	Warehouse SWG3
February 7	Manchester	UK	Gorilla
February 8	Birmingham		O2 Academy
February 10	London		Heaven
February 11	Bristol		Thekla
May 4	Cambridge, MA	US	The Sinclair
May 5	Philadelphia, PA		The Foundry
May 6	Brooklyn, NY		The Hall, Elsewhere
May 9	Montreal, QC	Canada	Théâtre Fairmount
May 10	Toronto, ON		Axis Club
May 12	Chicago, IL	US	Bottom Lounge
May 14	Saint Paul, MN		Amsterdam Bar & Hall
May 16	Denver, CO		Marquis Theater
May 17	Salt Lake City, UT		Soundwell
May 19	San Francisco, CA		The Independent
May 20	Los Angeles, CA		El Rey Theatre
June 23	Brooklyn, NY		Ladyland Festival
July 2	London	UK	Hyde Park
July 20	Vancouver	Canada	Sound Club
July 21	Seattle, WA	US	Capitol Hill Block Party
July 22	Portland, OR		Hawthorne Theatre

References

Request for Comment on whether an article on an album may contain a table of dates for the tour supporting the album

There has been a long-running slow-motion dispute on this page regarding the list of tour dates for the supporting album tour that ran from February 4 to July 22, 2023.

The project page, WP:CONCERT TOUR, says that for an article on a concert tour, "Tables may be used to present tour date information, such as dates, venues, locations, and opening/support acts". However, the essay, WP:ALBUMSTYLE, says, "Concert tours are not always notable enough to warrant stand-alone articles (see WP:NMG#Concert tours). Instead, information about notable tours and festivals should be incorporated into either the artist's page, or the album article for which the tour is supporting. Do not list all dates here, instead mention the range of dates (ex. June–September 1992)".

Neither of these pages are policy, but they leave gray the question of how to treat a concert tour that is arguably notable enough to have a separate article, but can arguably more concisely be presented to the reader as a section of an article on the album being promoted through this tour. BD2412 T 15:42, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

• I am inclined to agree that a full table of dates is overkill. We are not making a WP:DIRECTORY, and I would personally prefer to see something like “Between February 4 and August 25, Black toured the US, Canada, UK and Ireland... ” But ultimately the table doesn’t hurt anything, and this is just a question of editorial discretion. — HTGS (talk) 02:31, 6 June 2024 (UTC) (Summoned by bot)

  I should also make explicit: this is an article about the album; if the subject were the tour, a table or list of dates might be quite sensible. — HTGS (talk) 02:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• Start and end dates only. For an article about the album, noting each date, location, etc., is excess detail, since the tour is not even the primary article subject. It's fine to note that the tour was associated with the album, but that should be done relatively briefly. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:41, 7 June 2024 (UTC)