Talk:Letterkenny (disambiguation)

Requested move 29 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus, due to different interpretations of WP:PRIMARY. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 07:16, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

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• Letterkenny (disambiguation) → Letterkenny
• Letterkenny → Letterkenny, County Donegal

– When considering a primary topic, we evaluate pageviews, and long-term notability. While the town of Letterkenny certainly has the latter, it is getting trounced in pageviews by Letterkenny (TV series). I can hear you all in the back saying WP:RECENT, but since 2016, more than five years, the pageviews have been about 15:1 in favour of the TV series; a daily average of 3,337 vs. 238. Pageviews aren't everything, but they're something, and to me this justifies a dab at the basename per WP:NOPRIMARY. 162 etc. (talk) 01:44, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Pageviews here. 162 etc. (talk) 01:45, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. The County Donegal town of 19,274 most certainly does not overwhelm the combined notability of all other entries at the Letterkenny (disambiguation) page. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:39, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• Most of the other entries at the disambiguation page are related to the town actually, if you look at them closely. Even the TV series is named after it. --Dncnhly (talk) 23:41, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support the TV series looks like its unrelated to the town so unlike Cars (film) it doesn't seem like DABCONCEPT may somewhat apply. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:39, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:34, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom. No clear primary topic. Safest bet is to have the disambiguation page at the basename. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:02, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC) (speaking from the back)
• Oppose. Why should a Canadian TV show, which has only been around for a few years, cause a centuries-old settlement to be moved? The Canadian TV show even claims to be based on the place that the nominator wants to move. "The show follows the residents of Letterkenny, a fictional rural community in Ontario loosely based on Keeso's hometown of Listowel, Ontario. The placename is derived from the town of Letterkenny in County Donegal, Ireland". So Letterkenny should be subject to disambiguation because of a recent fiction but because he decided not to name it "Listowel", the town of Listowel should not? It's like moving Jules Rimet to Jules Rimet (person) because, despite having a trophy named after him, he happens to be dead and is from the past and anyway, people are only really interested in who wins the FIFA World Cup, not the history of the trophy, and not the old dead guy who might confuse all the fans unless he is quickly disambiguated. --Dncnhly (talk) 23:41, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Comment User:Dncnhly has added a number of WP:PTMs to the disambiguation page, which I have mostly removed. The user also added a note stating that the fictional town of Letterkenny is based on the Irish town. No sources have been cited for this, and it has also been removed. 162 etc. (talk) 19:37, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

162 etc. is not acting in good faith with that comment. They forgot to add that they they had just removed the "note stating that the fictional town of Letterkenny is based on the Irish town" from the TV show, which was where this claim originally was. "No sources have been cited for this", stated as if I introduced this problem. When I quoted it in my opposition above. The accusation of adding "a number of PTMs to the disambiguation page"? They were there since 2016 and were also there on May 29th, on the day the move request was made. I returned the athletic cub and golf club because these at least are not much different from a rugby club. To repeat, I added none of them. User:162... is not impartial in this and has attempted to mislead others and to disrupt the discussion by targeting someone who simply edited what was on the disambiguation page. --Dncnhly (talk) 06:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose, the town has the long-term notability. The pageviews look "spiky" for the TV series and seem to surge near release dates. I don't believe that something this ephemeral should move what is a large town by Irish standards. Declangi (talk) 00:01, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. In terms of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, the Letterkenny (disambiguation) page makes it clear that all other subjects derive from the Irish town's name. Including those topics associated with the Irish town directly (council, railway station, etc). And those topics associated with US town (in turn derived from the name of the Irish town). And, according to the TV show article (albeit it unsupported by an inline ref), the fictional Canadian place also derives its name from the Irish town. While sources suggest that the word "Letterkenny" likely triggers different associations with Irish and Canadian listeners, I don't see that (relatively recent) page view stats override the much longer-term significance of the town. Per WP:PTOPIC: "A topic is primary for a term with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value". In a conflict between "usage/views" and "significance/history", I'd err towards the latter. Especially when the hatnote solves any potential DAB issue (likely more readily) than an updated/intermediate DAB page would.

While I'm Irish, and had noted this discussion several days ago, I had held-off contributing until I'd acknowledged/checked my own potential bias. In trying to do so, I noted that when I hear "Ozark", I don't think Ozark Mountain Range but Ozark TV series. And, while, the article on the TV show has four times more daily views than the article on the region, I wouldn't (in a million years) suggest that the geographical topic is anything other than the primary topic. And I cannot support it in this case either. (TV shows are named after places. All the time. Articles on TV shows (and other pop culture topics) are viewed more than those on geographic/historical topics. Its a given. But the view counts on pop-culture topics, while a consideration, shouldn't override the lasting significance of geographical/historical topics. And, for that reason, I cannot support the proposed move. Any more than I would support moving Ozark. Guliolopez (talk) 15:20, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. The town is the very, very clear primary topic in terms of long-term significance if nothing else. Pure WP:RECENTISM. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:22, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.