Talk:Lev Chernyi

rewrite needed

I removed all text in this page, because it seems to be completely copied from http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/libertarians.html. This article was created on 18 December 2004 using text that was on that site previously (according to wbe.archive.org). --Gia.cossa 15:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarism problems

As of July 8, 2008, there are still a couple of sentences that need to be rewritten:

1. "In 1907, he published a book entitled Associational Anarchism,[3] in which he advocated the "free association of independent individuals" is word-for-word from the source.
2. "denouncing the Communist dictatorship as the worst tyranny in human history" is too similar to "denounced the Communist dictatorship as the worst tyranny in human history". GaryColemanFan (talk) 19:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I have refactored the first statement, although it really is atomic: the book was published in 1907, it was called A.A. and he advocated "quote" in it — there aren't very many ways you can combine that into a sentence. The second claim is citing, not plagiarising the source, although it was not appropriately attributed as such when you pointed it out. Identifying sentence fragments as plagiarism is really going off the deep end of copyright paranoia, especially considering the seven-line quotes included in other articles. Using material from other sources is well within the bounds of fair use, provided that it is cited appropriately and an excessive amount (i.e. successive paragraphs lifted unaltered from the material) is not used. Regards, Skomorokh 21:55, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider it copyright paranoia so much as passing off someone else's writing as one's own. If identical phrasing is going to be used, it should be included in quotation marks to indicate that the statement is not an original work by the author of this article. Perhaps I've spent too many years in university, but the sentence in question (without quotation marks to indicate that it is someone else's work) would certainly be sufficient to get a "0" on an assignment in any university. GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia, an encyclopedia, not an academic paper, which is original research. All we do is compile other people's work. I don't need to tell you that original interpretation by article authors is anathema. Our only concerns with using the text of others are a) whether it is reliable b) whether it is attributed and c) whether its use breaches fair use guidelines. Regards, Skomorokh 00:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I am aware of the disctinction. I respectfully disagree with your opinion. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:02, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I echo GaryColemanFan's concerns here - when you're quoting a section of text "attribution" requires indicating that not only the facts/ideas, but also the text itself, come directly from the source. This means treating them as quotes. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 01:11, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Gentlemen. We are discussing sentence fragments that contain neither unique or idiosyncratic phrasing nor controversial statements. Quotation is not appropriate.

If you honestly believe it is even conceptually possible to plagiarize stylistically unremarkable uncontroversial sentence fragments, feel free to refactor the offending line. The cat sat on the mat The mat was sat on by the cat. Crisis averted, cancel the lawsuit. Skomorokh 01:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

For later context, these issues were raised again as plagiarism in Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Lev Chernyi/1 and should be addressed, likely by WP:TNT if there aren't surgical fixes. czar 12:58, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

This should be resolved now with Grnrchst's edits czar 12:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)