Talk:Lev Nussimbaum

Lev Nussibaum/Kurban Said/Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli Dispute

There is a dispute between partisans of Lev Nussimbaum (chiefly Tom Reiss, author of the book on Nussimbaum, "The Orientalist") and partisans of Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli as to whether Nussimbaum was the primary author of "Ali & Nino" and "Girl from the Golden Horn." Having not read the offline article in "Azerbaijan International" which Gizgalasi cites, I can't comment on the claims of plagiarism, but in the course of claiming plagiarism, the pro-Chamanzaminli editors have also adopted a strongly partisan tone and made several unproveable derogatory statements about Nussimbaum, for example: (1) "Historians and literary critics, who knew these subjects well, discredited Essad Bey as a reliable source." (2) "Essad Bey was not a best-seller - there is no proof. A few thousand copies does not make one a best-seller in mid-1930s in Germany" and most significantly: (3) " Lev Nussimbaum's "conversion" to Islam was purely opportunistic and economically driven. He did NOT practice Islam."" This (3) is an unverifiable value judment: Nussimbaum performed a formal conversion to Islam (in fact, according to Tom Reiss' book, he converted twice) and no source says that he ever renounced his religion or claimed another religion afterwards. Calling his conversion "opportunistic" is impossible to prove without going back in time and looking into the mind of Lev Nussimbaum, and saying that he "did NOT (emphasis Gizgalasi's) practice Islam" is a value judgment assuming there is one correct interpretation of Islam, akin to a Protestant Christian saying that a Catholic or Mormon does "NOT practice Christianity." Drinking alcohol, as Nussimbaum also did according to Reiss' book, does not make him "not a Muslim" any more than Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who also drank alcohol for part of his life. In short, Nussimbaum's repeated statements that he was a Muslim must be taken at face value, as the converse (i.e. that he was not a Muslim or later renounced Islam) fails the test of being verifiable. 24.22.140.27 (talk) 23:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

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Lev Nussibaum/Kurban Said/Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli Dispute

There is a dispute between partisans of Lev Nussimbaum (chiefly Tom Reiss, author of the book on Nussimbaum, "The Orientalist") and partisans of Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli as to whether Nussimbaum was the primary author of "Ali & Nino" and "Girl from the Golden Horn." Having not read the offline article in "Azerbaijan International" which Gizgalasi cites, I can't comment on the claims of plagiarism, but in the course of claiming plagiarism, the pro-Chamanzaminli editors have also adopted a strongly partisan tone and made several unproveable derogatory statements about Nussimbaum, for example: (1) "Historians and literary critics, who knew these subjects well, discredited Essad Bey as a reliable source." (2) "Essad Bey was not a best-seller - there is no proof. A few thousand copies does not make one a best-seller in mid-1930s in Germany" and most significantly: (3) " Lev Nussimbaum's "conversion" to Islam was purely opportunistic and economically driven. He did NOT practice Islam."" This (3) is an unverifiable value judment: Nussimbaum performed a formal conversion to Islam (in fact, according to Tom Reiss' book, he converted twice) and no source says that he ever renounced his religion or claimed another religion afterwards. Calling his conversion "opportunistic" is impossible to prove without going back in time and looking into the mind of Lev Nussimbaum, and saying that he "did NOT (emphasis Gizgalasi's) practice Islam" is a value judgment assuming there is one correct interpretation of Islam, akin to a Protestant Christian saying that a Catholic or Mormon does "NOT practice Christianity." Drinking alcohol, as Nussimbaum also did according to Reiss' book, does not make him "not a Muslim" any more than Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who also drank alcohol for part of his life. In short, Nussimbaum's repeated statements that he was a Muslim must be taken at face value, as the converse (i.e. that he was not a Muslim or later renounced Islam) fails the test of being verifiable. 24.22.140.27 (talk) 23:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

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You make claims that the article is partisan but then admit that you have not read the material that would support these claims. Of particular relevance to your comments would be the research described in Azerbaijan International's article, "Frequently Asked Questions about the Authorship of Ali and Nino", 158 Questions, 543 Footnotes, 85 pages, in Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4 (2011), pp. 52-137.

Clearly, the research done by Azerbaijan International has been carefully footnoted. Their research was carried out over a period of six years. Originally, they thought that Essad Bey was the author of Ali and Nino as well. Their in-depth research caused them to absolutely refute the possibility of EB as "core author". Essad Bey / Lev Nussimbaum was more of a broker, who doctored and embellished manuscripts that were passed to him. How else to explain 16 books in 8 years while he was a refugee in Germany and Austria during those troublesome years. The research by Azerbaijan International clearly shows this. Read the 364 page research that AI has carried out - you would see that the claims they make are supported in the research which they carried out in 10 languages - English, Azeri, Russian, German, Italian, French, Georgian, Turkish, Persian and Swedish. http://AZER.com

As to the notes above: 1. Historians discredit EB as a credible source: Read the article "Critics: Fact or Fiction: What Essad Bey's Contemporaries Said," in Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4 (2011), pp. 166-179. Reviews are provided from 1930s, including New York Times, which were extremely critical of Essad Bey's writing. For example, Joseph Shaplen - March 27, 1932, in NY Times Book Review - writes about Essad Bey's "Stalin": "This is a dangerous book to put before the general public. The average reader not familiar with the background of the Russian revolutionary movement may be misled by the undocumented and purely legendary pages that fill the first half of this biography of the "legendary Georgian" written by the mysterious Essad Bey."

The Spectator (1932) wrote about EB's Stalin: "Essad Bey has all the gifts of a born writer; and his book may be heartily recommended - except to anyone who is dull enough to want the truth."

Nabih Amin Faris in "The Moslem World: A Christian Quarterly Review of Current Events, Literature and Thought Among Mohammedans," Vol. 27:2 (April 1937) published in Princeton. "Essad Bey's 'Mohammed' is a potpourri of bad history, distorted facts and naive interpretations. It should never have been written. I am fully aware that what I have already said is drastic and may invite the charge of intemperance. But there are no apologies to be offered. In fact, I am impelled to go still further and state that there is hardly a page in this "biography' which is free from error... It is very hard to believe the author has ever read the Quran, either in the original or in translation."

Search today the major libraries for books and biographies of those personalities that Essad Bey wrote about: Stalin, Lenin, Nicholas II, Mohammed and Reza Shah. You'll find no serious historian quotes or even references Essad Bey despite the fact that he wrote so early on these topics that if he had done an honest, responsible job, he would be quoted in hundreds, even thousands, of books and articles today. In fact, if historians mention him in their biographies, it is usually to point out the errors that Essad Bey made. For example, Essad Bey wrote that Nicolas II was beheaded!!!! Essad Bey might make for a "good read" - but he should never be trusted as a reliable, credible source.

Azerbaijan International provides 14 pages of such reviews by literary agents and historians.

2. Essad Bey was not a best seller. This judgment comes from Scholar Murray G. Hall who compiled a two-volume series - 1500 pages, Austrian Publishing History from 1918 to 1938. Hall covers the period when Essad Bey was writing and he has an entire chapter devoted to Tal Publishers in Vienna who published Ali and Nino, and Girl from the Golden Horn. One must consider the period of time and the networking systems that existed between the wars in Europe. It is Hall, probably the most distinguished scholar of the period, who comments that he did not feel that Essad Bey was a "best-selling" author. And most of EB's books did not make it past the first edition.

3. EB's conversion was opportunistic. Yes, there is proof. And there are at least three, not simply the two references that Reiss mentions - about EB's "conversion" to Islam - and all are different. One that he was born Muslim, another that he converted at age 8, another that he converted in his late teens in Berlin. Also See Frequently Asked Questions, No. 132: "Was Lev Nussimbaum a Jew?" pp. 85-86 in AI 15:2-4. In 1935, even on the ship's manifest when LN/EB was sailing to New York, he identifies himself and his wife as a Jewish. Furthermore, his closest friends, his Jewish wife, literary acquaintances such as Armin Wegner, as well as literary agents such as Herta Pauli all identify EB as Jewish. There are many practices (not simply the alcohol - which many devout Muslims follow) that show that his conversion was for practical purposes - and understandably so - while he was living in Berlin (where he fled when Hitler and the Nazis came to power in 1933) and Vienna (from where he fled after the Aushcluss in 1938).

By the way, it should be noted that EB's tombstone in Positano, Italy, had a turban on top - supposedly to identify him as Muslim. But turbans had been forbidden in the Ottoman empire as a headdress for males - a century earlier. Muslim tombstones of that period when EB died - 1942 - do not use "turbans" to identify the Muslim religion. EB and his friends - if they had been genuine Muslims - would have known this. Vacca, who paid for the tombstone - was another "opportunistic Muslim Convert" who was also EB's drug dealer and accused by Egyptians as being an arms smuggler.

Gizgalasi, December 15, 2011

References

I made some major additions to this, trying for a bit more clarity on his (very right-wing) politics. I gave a reference that should cover pretty much everything I added. I notice that previously there were no references cited. Everything here looks accurate to me -- I'm not doubting any of it -- but it would be good to indicate where it came from. It feels like most of it came from a publisher's blurb or a review of Reiss's book, rather than from the book itself, is that correct? -- Jmabel | Talk

That's more or less correct as far as my contributions at least. The book's promotional website also has some fairly extensive information. I've tried to back up what I could from multiple sources, but no I unfortunately haven't actualy read the biography itself. Wiccan Quagga Kurban Said was converted to islam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.217.139.13 (talk) 21:39, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The name KURBAN SAID - needs its own entry and should NOT alias into Lev Nussimbaum

This page Lev Nussimbaum is an alias from Kurban Said as well as Essad Bey.

We have just carried out six years of research on this topic from 2004 to 2010 and have studied documents in 10 languages - Azeri, Russian, English, German, French, Italian, Turkish, Persian, Georgian and Swedish. Our research is published in a triple issue of the magazine Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, which 364 pages and available in English as well as Azeri.

We agree that Essad Bey can alias into Lev Nussimbaum. But we disagree that Kurban Said should Alias into Lev Nussimbaum. It needs its own entry. Totally separate where various points of view could be presented.

Kurban Said is a pseudonym. Two novels were published under this name. "Ali and Nino" (1937) and "Girl from the Golden Horn" (1938) both first published in Vienna in the German language. Yes, it is true that Essad Bey used the name Kurban Said when he wrote a diary - which ended up being a fictionalized account of his life which includes vicious retaliatory account against his ex-wife Erika Loewendahl.

But our conclusions after serious deep study in archives in Azerbaijan especially - Azerbaijan Republic State History Archives and Institute of Manuscripts indicate that Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli is the core writer of these two novels which were published. We are convinced that this pseudonym KURBAN SAID - actually belongs to Chamanzaminli and is likely to have been created by him and not Essad Bey.

And that Essad Bey / Lev Nussimbaum gained access to the manuscripts (like he did with various other books - 16 were published under his name in 8 years). Furthermore, the name Kurban Said is meaningful to Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli's life - but not to Essad Bey's life.

See "Essad Bey as Core Author of Ali and Nino, Seven Reasons Why it Just Ain't So, in Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, pp.180-217.

"Kurban (Gurban in Azeri) - means sacrifice. And even Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminly referred to himself as "gurban" because of his political assignment as an Ambassador to Turkey - when the Bolsheviks took power in Baku. For him to return to Baku, which he did in 1926, under those incredibly dangerous conditions when most government authorities had been killed - was truly "gurban" - Furthermore, YVC had even written a short story "Gurban" earlier in his literary career about a father who kills his son - as a sacrifice to the family's reputation.

So we believe there is a very strong case to separate the ALIAS and allow KURBAN SAID to stand on its own and not automatically alias into LEV NUSSIMBAUM. The name is a PSEUDONYM and the research that Tom Reiss carried out in Azerbaijan was extremely superficial. Reiss claims that Lev Nussimbaum is Kurban Said but the archives do not support such claims.

Reiss himself wrote that the Lev Nussimbaum was the least credible when it came to questions of self identity. And certainly the name of KURBAN SAID - is one of those identities in which Essad Bey should not be trusted. All his life Lev had written with the name ESSAD BEY. He even signed his FINAL WILL in 1941 - the year before he died (now kept in the RASCHER Fund of the Central Library of the University of Zurich) - ESSAD BEY, "also known as Lev Nussimbaum and Leo Nusenbaum." He did NOT include the name KURBAN SAID in his will. And the Kurban Said books came out in 1937 and 1938. And the "diary" was advertised in 1937 in a Kirschner book but was actually never published.

To alias the term Kurban Said - into Lev Nussimbaum assumes that he is the writer of Ali and Nino and we have found so many reasons that link Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli as the CORE writer of Ali and Nino. See "101 Reasons why Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli is the Core Writer of Ali and Nino," in Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, pp. 262-333.[1]

Essad Bey's finger are in the novel - most evident in folkloric and legendary passages - and copied from previous books. See "Cut and Paste Author: Essad Bey's Fingerprints in Ali and Nino, Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, pp. 230-251.

So please, we need a separate entry for the term "Kurban Said." Thanks. Gizgalasi (talk) 04:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)gizgalasiGizgalasi (talk) 04:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)