Talk:Li Desheng

Start

I found a redirect from Li Desheng to Mao Zedong, and so decided to create an article. My first attempt, so help is welcome. DOR (HK) (talk) 04:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

First challenge: how to stop my effort from being reverted to a "redirect." Ah, so much to learn . . . DOR (HK) (talk) 08:38, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Just overwrite it with content. No need to blank the page first. Even a stub will do. Rossami (talk) 13:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Rossami. Now, I'm having trouble formatting the succession box. Data dump, until I get better at this:

DOR (HK) (talk) 14:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

• This article was originally a redirect page to Mao Zedong. It was not wrong. Mao Zedong indeed used Li Desheng (李德胜) as his pseudonym (see, e.g., this article). That's why Mao's two daughters Li Min and Li Na have the family name Li, not Mao. --Neo-Jay (talk) 07:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Given that General Li Desheng is quite worthy of his own entry, and the Mao reference is probably the single most obscure fact about the Great Helmsman, my view is that the redirect was unnecessarily confusing. DOR (HK) (talk) 10:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

"Mid-importance" label

I freely admit that I don’t understand the classification system, so can only go by what else is rated “C-Class” and “Mid-Importance”. There seems to be a lot of one-off events (East Asian Games Opening Ceremony – does that even warrant an article?), which doesn’t fit with this article. Li Desheng was one of China’s 20-30 most important post-1949 generals. Can anyone explain this ranking? Thanks. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:58, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I interpret WP:CHINA's "C-Class" category, as applied to twentieth-century biographies of generals and statesmen, as: "The article gives a reasonably well-researched overview of a person's life and career, but many of the details will be cursory, challenged, and/or unsourced. A C-ranked biography mentions that person's involvement in major battles, power struggles, or events in that person's life, but will not go into great (reliable) detail. The system of referencing for a C-ranked article may be distinctly un-academic. Most articles which are clearly the result of reliable research but do not go into great detail, or which are detailed but greatly unsourced, should be placed into this category by default. (i.e. Yan Xishan, Wang Jingwei, and Chen Duxiu)."

I interpret WP:CHINA's "Mid-Importance" category, as applied to twentieth-century biographies of generals and statesmen, as: "People who may have been important and famous, but who are not well known to the public. Although they may have been important, their contributions were often under the authority of others, and/or obscure. They may have achieved a degree of power and success, but usually this level of power was not at the highest levels, was only in a very specialized area, was clearly overshadowed by more powerful and successful figures, and/or was only for a limited period of time before they fell into relative obscurity. Because these figures will be given only a cursory description in general Chinese history texts, editors will need to access specialized and/or academic resources in order to research them in detail. Most biographies will fall into this category by default. (i.e. Yan Xishan, Song Jiaoren, and Jiang Qing)."

I believe that Li Desheng's biography should be considered "C" class because it is too well-organized and well-cited to be considered "start"-class, but is far too cursory to be considered "B". Editors desiring to raise the article to "B" status could do more research on: Li's background and education; a description of his activities and battles during the Civil and Korean Wars; what his specific efforts to reorganize the PLA were; the circumstances under which he was eventually demoted; his life during and after the Cultural Revolution; and, his relationship with the other major Chinese personalities who influenced China during his career, including Mao, Lin, Peng, Zhou, Deng, and (his possible mentor) Chen. At present, the article's treatment of all of these areas is extremely cursory.

According to this criteria, I believe that Li Desheng's biography should be considered "mid importance" because he was important in the sense that he won several successful battles in the late Chinese Civil War and was recognized by the PRC for his efforts. He was one of the more senior generals in the Korean War, and was a powerful general (although not the most powerful) until the end of the Cultural Revolution. I believe that his biography should not be considered "High" because his successes in the Civil War were overshadowed by Lin and Peng (the only two of the Ten Great Marshals whose articles I believe should be considered "High" importance). In the Korean War, he served under the overall command of Peng, and was therefore less important. After he was politically demoted at the end of the Cultural Revolution, he never quite regained the same level of prestige (even after being rehabilitated). Like the other Great Marshals (besides Peng and Lin), most students of Chinese history will not be familiar with him unless their studies have focused specifically on the late Civil War or the Korean War.

See my talk page for more details.Ferox Seneca (talk) 07:07, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Revisions

FedeloKomma, what was the point of the revisions you did? DOR (HK) (talk) 03:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

The article lacked some information, I just added something on Li Desheng's activity during the Cultural Revolution starting from sources I cited. For instance, Li Desheng's one-year tenure as PLA General Political Department director was a mistake, since it is not reflected nor in the Chinese Wikipedia, nor in any other Chinese publication I saw. --FedeloKomma (talk) 17:11, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Just saw this. Since when is Chinese Wiki a better source than the one cited? See also, People's Liberation Army General Political Department! DOR (HK) (talk) 18:02, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

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