Talk:Lieber Code

Application in the WBTS

I'd be curious to see any cases where this was applied in the War Between the States. Here in Virginia, Mosby's men were hanged by BG Custer, homes were burned routinely, and families were massacred (including in my own family) after this was made law. It certainly did not weigh heavy on the minds of Hunter, Sheridan or Sherman as they destroyed the South. CsikosLo (talk) 17:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Or Forest or Quantrill. AnonMoos (talk) 20:07, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement

I have added the task forces for mil hist project now. Also I have completed the B class checklist and feel that the article could be improved by addressing the following:

• Referencing: all paragraphs should have at least one in line citation for a B class review;
• Coverage: The article could be expanded to discuss per clearly the specifics of the Lieber Code
• Structure: the article could be improved with a more defined structure, e.g. a concise introduction that summarises the whole article, followed by a section that discusses the main provisions of the Code (as per above), then a few of the miscellaneous sections.
• Supporting materials: the article needs something to illustrate it - an image of some sort, or infobox

Just a few ideas anyway. Hope this helps. AustralianRupert (talk) 02:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

2018

The "Slavery and black prisoners of war" section could use a rewrite. Not well cited and seemingly heavily biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:DDA7:3C00:5CED:3D76:99FB:7B2E (talk) 03:39, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Text removal

I have moved this:

the Code permitted the bombardment of defended cities, even if collateral damage were inevitable, upon a refusal to surrender; the Code permitted the starvation of both armed and unarmed belligerents to induce surrender; and it permitted the taking of hostages and execution of the same if militarily necessary to suppress insurrectionary activity.

to here as it implies that non of these are legitimate under today's laws of war. Most of them are. For example both Britain and Germany used naval blockades in both word wars and the British explicitly excluded it along with the use of Nukes when they signed up to Protocol I.[1]. Taking and execution of hostages was to a limited extent still acceptable as late as World War II (See the Hostages Trial). I'm not sure if it still is, (probably not under Protocol I) but such a claim needs a source. --PBS (talk) 03:16, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

NPOV

I have serious concerns about the Philippine-American War section, it reads like a litany of excuses for why the actions of US forces totally weren't war crimes because they deserved it, you see. I could see there being a place for those arguments in a balanced section of the article about said war crimes, but as it stands here the section feels creepy and offensive.Alereon (talk) 01:26, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The section you refer to describes what the referenced scholars and academics have argued, and clearly points out that many acts committed were war crimes under the Leiber Code. It also refers to "the standards of the day", which by no means justifies any of the acts described, but places them within the context of that era. I think it qualifies as neutral. Cmacauley (talk) 14:54, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

I removed most of the discussion as the issue of war crimes during that war are issues of fact and interpretation of non-Lieber Code law, as well as the Lieber Code. It is best that such discussion take place within the Phil-Amer War article or some other article. This article should focus of the Lieber Code and not war crimes or torture. We can provide links to articles about war crimes, courts martial or other articles about specific cases and instances where the Lieber Code was important. That way we won't have duplicate discussions across different articles. This should focus on the code with internal links branching out from here to other articles with specifics about when the Leiber Code was consulted, referenced, appealed to, used, etc. See the discussion of the Hague Conferences. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 07:35, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

rules of engagement

In the early Classical Greek world hostilities were routinely suspended to give people an opportunity to bury and mourn the dead (for example, in the Iliad) and to attend games, especially the Olympic Games, where it was announced on a bronze disc that all hostilities had been suspended (ekekheiria 'holding hands')to give people an opportunity to travel to and attend the games in safety Pamour (talk) 10:52, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Inaccurate ahistorical use of "Confederate" and "Confederacy"

There are several instances in this article of "confederate" and "confederacy" to refer to southern states in the 1850s, before the secession and establishment of the CSA. 104.57.64.23 (talk) 18:24, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

"Hard Measures" doesn't reflect sources. Section title could be improved

Part of the section Hard Measures did not accurately represent the sources -- the NYT Article and the code itself. The below updates included direct references to the code's language.

In the 19th century, the Lieber Code legalized limited circumstances for retaliation against enemies for acts such as giving no quarter, reasoning "a reckless enemy ... leaves to his opponent no other means of securing himself against the repetition of barbarous outrage." (article 27) "Retaliation shall only be resorted to after careful inquiry into the real occurrence, and the character of the misdeeds that may demand retribution."(article 28)

However, retribution is limited: "Unjust or inconsiderate retaliation removes the belligerents farther and farther from the mitigating rules of regular war, and by rapid steps leads them nearer to the internecine wars of savages."(article 28)

As he believed war's ultimate goal is to bring peace, Lieber preferred for short wars fought and won with decisive warfare, as proposed in the strategy and tactics of the Prussian military science of Carl von Clausewitz. To that end, the Lieber Code legitimized and justified aggressive war to expand the operational range of the Union Army’s prosecution of the civil war to conquer the Confederacy and free the slaves. Dunnpm (talk) 14:33, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

References