Talk:Limousin cattle

Proposed edits/additions

It's good to have critical review. However, I partially undid and reworded the previous three edits of 13 October 2013 by Charlesdrakew for the reasons given below.

Comment on first edit: The section removed by Charlesdrakew described how, in fact, European cattle evolved through three distinct routes, so his justifcation for this section's removal was incorrect. I consider it important to describe the specific evolutionary path of Limousin in the central European cattle group, which DNA analysis indicates can trace its origins directly to the original aurochs domesticated in and introduced from the Near East. On the other hand, DNA analysis shows that northern and southern European cattle evolved through inter-breeding of local, but wild, Eurassian aurochs with introduced domesticated aurochs.

The second edit referred to information contained in the Origin section removed by Charlesdrakew in his previous edit, which is the reason why it then did not appear in the article! Because it was a repeat of earlier words appearing in the now reinstated section, it can remain out.

Charlesdrakew's third edit and rewording was of words translated from an original French article on the history of Limousins, but won't lose any sleep if the words are not reinstated.--Aussiefrank (talk) 04:58, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

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Comments

SIOBHAN WANTS ONE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.125.234 (talk) 18:11, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

This is a strange article. Why the long section on the prehistoric evolution of cattle? This section partially reproduces and partially contradicts similar parts of the main Cattle and Aurochs articles, and has no place in a breed-specific reference. Also, the idea that Limousin breeders could have started work on temperament in the 1990s and produced an "easy to work with" breed in at most ten generations is risible. You can't turn your back on a Limousin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.148.183.83 (talk) 21:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment. The article is still a work in progress. Firstly, agree that the early pre-history section is too long and will be shortened. Several studies of the DNA of many European breeds have been published over the past three or four years, which have changed views on the origins of and relationships between different breeds, including Aurochs. This might be the reason for the unspecified contradictions referred to above. Secondly, the reason for the rapid improvement in temperament is because the trait is highly heritable - variously quoted as greater than 0.5, compared with other traits which typically have heritabilities in the range 0.1 to 0.4. Selection for calm cattle in highly structured breed development programs now practiced by most stud cattle breeders around the world, and culling animals with poor temperament, has resulted in the rapid general improvement in temperament seen in Limousins. The broad statement that "you can't turn your back on a Limousin" might have been valid 15 years ago, but is definitely not true today. Aussiefrank (talk) 10:54, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Origins

The origins section borders on the absurd, going all the back to the Pleitocene and Lascaux. I bet that if the painings had not been discovered, nobody would have included that drivel here. The aurochs is the common ancestor of all domestic cattle, yet we don't see such homeric tales at Angus, Holstein, Shorthorn, etc. I'll wait for reactions and then decide on deleting the sections in question. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 13:40, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Comment: Presumably Rui Gabriel Correia re-read the first two sentences, then read the following sentences and realized that the origin section was not as absurd as he/she claimed. While aurochs is the common ancestor of domesticated cattle, DNA analysis shows that modern cattle breeds followed different evolutionary paths. Presumably, the breeds named by Rui Gabriel Correia are a product of past northern European breeding practices in which local Eurasian aurochs were at one time mated to domesticated cows. DNA analysis of Limousins (and other central European cattle breeds) indicates that inter-breeding between local aurochs and domesticated cattle did not occur - these breeds' genetics can be traced directly to cattle originally domesticated in the Near East. References to the DNA research are given in the origin section. Rui Gabriel Correia can of course provide an alternative interpretation of the reported research. Aussiefrank (talk) 02:24, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 25 August 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 01:33, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

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Limousin (cattle) → Limousin cattle – Per discussion at WT:LIVESTOCK TheMagikCow (talk) 09:20, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• Move - Limousin cattle appears to be a term in use; provides WP:NATURAL disambiguation, preferable to parenthetical. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 09:45, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support WP:NATURALDAB -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 05:43, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support per WP:NATURALDIS.--Staberinde (talk) 15:24, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support per nom. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:50, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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GAR

Limousin cattle

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: (First delisting encountered error, which should be resolved).

No general references, but extensive uncited material, meaning criterion 2 is not met. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:49, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
A GA from 2015. Has been orange tagged for

• This article reads like a press release or a news article and may be largely based on routine coverage.
• This article's factual accuracy is disputed.

and also has some uncited statements which seemingly include

• These were productive, grain-producing areas, called d'engrais, undeveloped, marginal, predominantly forested land called forestiers, and developing land called d'élèves. Cattle, in particular cows, were used extensively for all types of agricultural work.
• The French Limousin Herd Book was then created in 1886 to ensure the breed's purity and improvement by recording only those animals that satisfied a strictly enforced breed standard.
• that the Limousin breed's origins can be traced to the blonde Garonne breed in the fifth century AD. The Garonne breed from the south-west of France was merged into the Blonde d'Aquitaine breed in 1962. The grey Gasconne breed with which Limousin cattle have a close genetic relationship is also reported to have arrived in the south-west of France with the Visigoths also around the fifth century AD.Limousin cattle are identified as members of an "intensively selected" "blond and red" branch of hardy, heavily muscled, and fine-boned working cattle found in south-west Europe. The branch, which is one of several that have influenced cattle breeding in France, comprises a number of Spanish, Portuguese, and French cattle breeds, which possibly evolved from those introduced during a past occupation of Iberia. (this only cites up to a note)

and more. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:05, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Many uncited additions since I passed the article for GA in 2015. Needs quite a bit of work, failing which I'd not oppose the removal of GA status. Tim riley talk 20:34, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm in favour of a review here. I've made a good number of edits in the last 3 years or so, but not really managed to make any real impression on the substantial and serious problems in the page. I've created or edited many pages on French cattle breeds, and am available to try – to the best of by ability – to make further improvements to this one. In my opinion the page needs prolonged attention from an experienced team of workers with heavy brush-cutting equipment before anything else much can be done. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:41, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.