Talk:Lingerie/Archives/2012

Corsetry

I am not sure what is intended by "Corset by bone" and "Corsage by elastic" - anyone? PKM 01:48, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I think "Corset by bone" is made of real bone, e.g. from a whale fish. "Corsetry by elastic" is made of synthetic materials. Geneviève 14:17, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

"Corset by bone" originally and traditionally was a corselette whose structure is reinforced by whalebone. These are called stays and nowadays modern manufacturing methods use a coiled wire stay, or to keep costs down, plastic. "Corsetry by elastic" are now garments for support which use technological developments in knitted textiles to create their shape and support - like Spanx, or Santoni machined items (seamless products). They don't necessarily have to be synthetic, in fact companies like Hanro use cotton mix seamless technology, but the majority of products on the market are. Violetbeau (talk) 22:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I came here in search of talk on the pronunciation of "lingerie". If the word is to be considered French, then ",lorn-zher-'ay", ",lon-" and so on are wrong and sound stupid.

The French would pronounce it, in line with the way they pronounce the rest of their words, ",lahn-zher-'ee", or "lan-". The opening "lin" of "lingerie" should be pronounced like "vin", or "Boursin". You wouldn't pronounce those words "vorn" or "von", nor "boor-sorn". Similarly, the French word "amie", a female friend, is not pronounced "amay". Why, then, should "lingerie" end in an "ay" sound?

Why has this word's pronunciation become so corrupt? Crunchysaviour 01:08, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Here's a site that agrees with me: http://members.aol.com/fanetiks/corrpron.html Google "lingerie pronunciation" without the inverted commas and you'll see what I mean. Crunchysaviour 01:18, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

It's not the place of an encyclopaedia to be prescriptive in matters such as this. Pronunciations like /'lɒndɘʒerei/ are common enough in English not to be described as 'obviously incorrect', particularly bearing in mind their inclusion without comment in standard dictionaries. Nor are non-French pronunciations restricted in the slightest to the USA. Moreover, there is no reason why foreign words in English should be pronounced as in the original language, even if some are. It is simply a matter of convention, and not only does convention differ from word to word, it changes in time and from place to place. No one pronounces the -t in ballet, but to pronounce it in fillet is standard practice in British English. Similarly, in most varieties of English, the h- of hotel is now almost always pronounced, while it is still dropped in honest. From the other side, the French do not pronounce 'shampooing' in the same way a native English speaker would. Why should they? garik 16:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I strongly agree with crunchy. The Americanised pronunciation is just plain ignorant, and I don't much care what the dictionaries say. However I'm reasonably happy with the current paragraph. El Ingles 17:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd be very surprised if you find you agree with everything http://members.aol.com/fanetiks/corrpron.html says - all it is is one man's list of how he thinks we should say things (and he doesn't seem to approve of British forms either). Do you both, as Englishmen, shun /tjuːn/ in favour of /tuːn/ when you talk about melodies? Do you pronounce moustache with the stress on the first syllable? And what makes you think /'lɒndʒɘrei/ is an Americanism anyway? garik 20:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I use /tjuːn/ and mous'tache (and schedule and tomahto when I remember), but I'm not saying /tuːn/ and 'muss-tache (and skedule and tomayto) are actually wrong. Likewise I have no objection at all to anglicisation of proper nouns like Paris and Marseilles. I wouldn't mind if the yanks pronounced the first syllable of lingerie like the girl's name Lynne, that'd be understandable. /'lɒn/ for lin and /ei/ for ie are crimes of a whole different type. I'm saying they're Americanisms because I live in the USA and I hear them all the time here. I never heard them in UK. El Ingles 20:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn't think you would consider /tuːn/ etc as actually wrong - but the bloke who wrote that site considers your pronunciations wrong. I regret to inform you, by the way, that /'lɒndʒɘrei/ has long been a common form in these isles - the Americans have no monopoly on too little French. You must have moved in exalted circles here. garik 10:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

You must have moved in exalted circles here. I certainly did, squire. The BBC, no less. However, I lived in the Mile End Road for a while and most of my drinking buddies talked like Michael Caine. El Ingles 00:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Lol, what a joke. No-one in "these isles" says "lonzh-er-ay", certainly not any native British English speakers, unless they are deliberately trying to sound American. The only time you'd hear "lonzh-er-ay" in the UK is either from American visitors, or those constant repeats of "Friends" on tv. 91.85.177.45 (talk) 09:33, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Male Lingerie

The article states that Lingerie is only feminine except for in France. I would suggest that this is an old fashioned view, as now many companies specialise in men's lingerie in the rest of the world. Including such famous stores as Selfridges and Harrods.

Silk lingerie redirects here

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Silk lingerie. I couldn't find anything to merge, but those interested are free to go over the article history and cull anything useable. Johnleemk | Talk 16:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Are the following really lingerie? leotard, unitard, bodysuit, nightgown, bodystocking, robe, bedjacket? None of them are really undergarments. DJ Clayworth 21:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Expansion

Began to create a more descriptive and comparative list, similar to Collar (clothing), Coat (clothing), or Shirt.

Garter

Seems that the US meaning of suspenders (ie UK braces) is the only thing you can get when clicking on garter, garter belt and suspender belt, which at least to me seems very strange, as they are at least 2 different things in UK English, I wonder why? I tried to find appropriate articles to link to, but couldn't guess the right address. 149.155.96.6 15:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

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Typology

how can the entry state "not applied to functional cotton undergarments. then proceed to list other functional undergarments like granny pants, spankies, and girdles. Lingerie can be functional, but its main purpose is erotic. The old saying is that lingerie is not to be worn, but to be taken off. --70.255.62.47 21:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Cotton underwear is not necessarily functional, nor does cotton determine if it is erotic, nor does functionality exclude erotic features. Push-Up Bras are enhancing the erotic features and are clearly functional. I would rather rename it to "basic cotton underwear" or similar. 209.93.238.10 (talk) 03:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

This is a form versus function debate - just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, lingerie's main purpose is not necessarily to be functional. Why would Triumph proclaim that their classic non-underwired Doreen bra is the world's best selling bra? Can you seriously tell me that an 70 year old woman sees that bra the same way someone who is 25, and admires Bettie Page's style would?

I could undermine the argument about cotton underwear equally, companies such as Marks and Spencer, Hanro and Sloggi have cut their teeth on making practical cotton underwear for different levels of the market - but D&G and even Stella McCartney all make cotton undercrackers - ultimately definately NOT aimed at the same consumer and NOT for the same reasons. As to the adage - "lingerie is not to be worn, but to be taken off" I would hope you're aiming that at the Dita Von Teese's of the world and not the Vanessa Feltz (apologies if you're not UK based)! Violetbeau (talk) 22:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Although its great to identify the different category that typify lingerie, the part of the article resembles an advertorial for different sectors of the market. A contributor states that Rigby and Peller are well known for their fitting service - that's subjective - I know Rigby and Peller has a top rated fitting service but surely they are better known in lingerie circles as being corsetieres (makers of individualized brassieres) and suppliers of lingerie to the Queen? What interest is it what brands they stock? It spoils the overview and neutrality of the article.

External links

I wonder why the only external link is this shady website on the history of lingerie. I'm a lingerie lover myself - and have to say there are loads of better pages out there.

Robotman deleted them, though, something I honestly don't understand. Is this a double standard issue? Jiiinx 11:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

All external links present in articles must be compliant with the policy at WP:EL. If you think the one in this article doesn't comply, feel free to remove it. Robotman¹⁹⁷⁴ 11:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It's so obvious that this is the case. Again, the current website isn't compliant with WP:EL either... Strange! Jiiinx 10:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I would like to suggest this link. It gives a very detailed breakdown going back all the way to the 1700s http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie.html

I would like to suggest this link because it points to the largest directory of lingerie brands that I could find so far on the web, sorted by country and/or alphabetically: http://lingerie-planet.com/a/directory

I'd also like to suggest http://www.fancy-lingerie.com/pd27-The-History-of-Lingerie.html. It presents in a very useful manner the history of lingerie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexoprea (talk • contribs) 14:21, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Why.

Lingerie. Why. -_-. A more economical alternative to lingerie is to just take off your clothes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.50.224 (talk) 06:15, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you kidding?! Many people find lingerie insanely more sexy than someone being nude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.173.24 (talk) 10:49, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Selection of pictures

The first and fourth pictures are fine to me, but the second and third ones uncecessarily show too much of female's bodies. Can someone pick better suited pictures of women using lingerie? --190.135.55.160 (talk) 02:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

no, by cause that sexuality is good--even if you prefer asexuality; furthermore: lingerie is not designed to "cover" but instead to "protect" sexually sensitive areas from abrasion 67.183.157.148 (talk) 02:02, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

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Only sexy?

I don't think the statement in the summary is correct that the word "lingerie" only describes undergarments that are considered erotic. In my experience this is not common usage (in the U.S.), and this is backed up by the use of the word in very common retailers including "functional, basic cotton undergarments" as is distinguished as a different category.

See jcpenny.com Women>Lingerie (including basic cotton bras and panties), also "shapewear" i.e. girdles which are not generally considered visually erotic. While Target.com uses "intimates" (a current common term for undergarments in stores), if you search for "lingerie" some of the top hits that are undergarments include plain cotton bras, plain cotton panties, and nursing bras. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathlaura (talk • contribs) 09:49, 28 March 2012 (UTC)