Talk:Lionel Messi/Archive 14

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Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2018

Change 'considered to be one of the greatest of all time' to 'considered by many in the sport as the greatest of all time'

Messi is listed here as 'considered by many in the sport to be one of the greatest of all time' which has been changed from 'considered to be the greatest of all time'. Messi actually enjoys significant, noticeable dominance among pundits and those involved in the sport as the greatest of all time outright, and 'one of the greatest of all time' underestimates how well he is actually regarded. I believe he is specially and uniquely regarded as such so as to merit that description Lipstick322 (talk) 08:14, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. WP:WEIGHT states:

• If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts.

Keep in mind that, in determining proper weight, we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources, not its prevalence among Wikipedia editors or the general public. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 11:36, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

As much as u can say "many in sport..." about Pele, Maradona,and Messi, u might as well say "regarded by many as the greatest.." on some other players. (Cruijff, Zidane, Beckenbauer, Maldini, Ronaldo da lima, C.Ronaldo, Di stefano, G.best, Garrincha) I don't see a reason to add this "regarded by many in sport the be the best" on Pele, Maradona, and Messi, but not add "regarded by many" to the other players i've pointed out above (and any player who i might forgot). Wikipedia needs to keep status-quo, and either make the addition for every one of the players, or just leave it like it is now. The question is - is the addition even neccesary for an encyclopedia? if it is, editors need to make the proper addition for each and every single one of those players.

It is my understanding that the general consensus in the sport is Messi is the greatest of all time to such a significant degree that is worth mentioning. How would you recommend going about providing sources for this other than all the individual people who have said it? I am aware this is not a forum for a debate on who is the best, but I believe the near unanimous belief the soccer world holds that Messi is the best should be identified on his Wikipedia page as it is a staple of who he is — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lipstick322 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Any consensus that might be about Messi, the consensus about Pele and Maradona is still not smaller than about Messi, and i'm pretty sure even bigger. There are other players who are pretty much at the same level as those three, but after all it's a personal opinion, so i think this whole additions are pointless for an encyclopedia, and no one can really decide where to make the addition between several players who are at the top of history, so they should either leave it as it is, or make the addition for all of those players (it makes no difference, since its an opinion, but as an encyclopedia, whatever the editors do they should do evenly). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 21:39, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the comments made by Lipstick322. It is clear that certain Cristiano Ronaldo fans, perhaps unhappy that Messi is frequently referred to as one of the three greatest of all time (alongside Pele and Maradona), are wanting their idol's page to refer to him in the same way as the others. One of these C Ronaldo fans is the user above (84.111.233.230) who continuously makes the claim that other players can also be referred to as being on the same level as Pele, Maradona and Messi, despite there being very few credible sources to back up such a claim. The fact that Maradona's, Pele's and Messi's pages have been edited simply to please some disgruntled C Ronaldo fans is a travesty. There are numerous sources to back up the claim that 'many' consider Pele, Maradona and Messi to be the the greatest of all time. There are simply nowhere near enough sources to back up the same claim for any of the other players that user 84.111.233.230 mentions.O'Flannery (talk) 16:48, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Just don't refer to anyone at all in this way. One of the greatest, maybe, but not the greatest. Anyone. Britmax (talk) 10:16, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

2 european records that should be added.

What about the 2 records of gerd muller that messi recently broke.i think they should be added because they are major european records.

Burningknight2 (talk) 03:17, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Please tell us which records you mean. Britmax (talk) 10:13, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

1- MESSI BREAKS MULLER GOAL RECORD WITH HIS 366TH LEAGUE GOAL FOR BARCELONA Lionel Messi has broken Gerd Muller's long-standing record for the most league goals scored for the same club in Europe's top five divisions.

The Barcelona superstar, who equalled the tally while making his 400th LaLiga appearance for the Calatan giants against Levante last weekend, netted his 366th goal in Spain's top flight during the 4-2 win over Real Sociedad on Sunday.

Messi's left-footed free-kick from 25 yards saw him overtake Muller's haul of 365 Bundesliga strikes for Bayern Munich.

2- Lionel Messi breaks Gerd Muller's record to become all-time goalscorer in Europe's top five leagues with 526th Barcelona strike.

Messi's strike was his 526th in all competitions for Barcelona meaning he becomes the highest all-time goalscorer in Europe's top five leagues for a single club.

Burningknight2 (talk) 11:47, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

So where does our definition of trivia start these days? Britmax (talk) 11:53, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

World Record : Only player to score 40+ club goals in 8 consecutive seasons

Hello, I have noticed that many records of Lionel Messi were removed in the past and still being removed.. I added the subject record and I see it again been removed. I have provided a top reliable source but it seems that some users, who obviously do not like Lionel Messi, keep removing them.. Could anybody help me on this ? Are Wikipedia reviewers / controllers supposed to take any action and check what is correct or not ?? Thank you in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dim. Nor. 86 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

I have nothing against any individual here but the items you are adding are more suitable to a soccer wiki or pure stats site. And please sign your posts (4x~). Britmax (talk) 13:26, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this is correct. This article is already 314K long and does not need more trivia adding to it. And it doesn't matter if trivia is sourced, it's still trivia. There are important records, and there are trivial ones. "Top goalscorer in a La Liga season" is an important record. "One of only two Argentina players to win the Golden Ball award in both FIFA World Cup and FIFA U-20 World Cup" is trivia. I'll probably be trimming these out (along with the unsourced ones) later today. Black Kite (talk) 15:12, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2018

27.106.7.169 (talk) 11:35, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
The third child of Lionel Messi born on 10/3/2018 named Ciro Messi with her mother Antonella Roccuzzo.

Already in the article. Britmax (talk) 11:55, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

 Already done Nihlus 11:57, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2018

41.188.100.57 (talk) 00:00, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Sakura Cartelet^Talk 00:20, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

"Records" trivia

A number of editors, including one in particular recently, are adding ridiculous numbers of "records" to this article which is already too long. This is the very definition of trivia, and needs to be pared back to the ones that are actually important. This is supposedly a Good Article but is in danger of being re-assessed at the moment because of this immense amount of trivia. Be interested to hear other's views as to which ones are indispensible and which are not before trimming it. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 19:40, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Just keep the world ones. The thers can be incorporated into the article if they are important or split into a separate article (or deleted). AIRcorn (talk) 02:33, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2018

The god Lionel-Messi (talk) 04:04, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — IVORK _Discuss 04:42, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2018

Lionel Messi Lionel Messi 2017.jpg Messi with Argentina in November 2017 Personal information Full name Lionel Andrés Messi Cuccittini[1] Date of birth 24 June 1987 (age 30)[2] Place of birth Rosario, Argentina Height 1.70 m (5 ft 7 in)[3] Playing position Forward Club information Current team Barcelona Number 10 Youth career 1994–2000 Newell's Old Boys 2001–2004 Barcelona Senior career* Years Team Apps (Gls) 2003–2004 Barcelona C 10 (5) 2004–2005 Barcelona B 22 (6) 2005– Barcelona 418 (383) National team‡ 2004–2005 Argentina U20 18 (14) 2008 Argentina U23 5 (2) 2005– Argentina 124 (64) Honours[show]

• Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only and correct as of 29 May 2018

‡ National team caps and goals correct as of 29 May 2018 Lionel Messi This article is part of a series about Lionel Messi Argentinian professional footballer

International goals Career achievements Comparisons to Cristiano Ronaldo Films

Messi (2014) Messi (2017) v t e Lionel Andrés Messi Cuccittini[note 1][note 2] (Spanish pronunciation: [ljoˈnel anˈdɾez ˈmesi] (About this sound listen);[A] born 24 June 1987) is an Argentinian professional footballer who plays as a forward... 217.150.99.10 (talk) 11:16, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. You seem to have copied and pasted text from the article and it's not clear what you want changed. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 13:33, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Photo

Personally, I think the photo at the beginning of the article is completely done, but I would like to know if I could change the image to the one here:https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rus-Arg_2017_(16).jpg. Once again as I said the one on this page currently is just fine, but just asking. Oblow14 (talk) 02:10, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

@Oblow14: I think the current photo is better because the photo you suggest has some dark/shadow in the face. --Hddty. (talk) 00:04, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2018

Messi Started Barcelona Career from 2004 and not 2005 as shown in right side profile, 125.99.229.3 (talk) 12:15, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor 12:36, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2018

I am requesting to edit this page as I am a new wikipedia member and interested in making pages as I want to be a journalist when I am older. Torcheagle959 (talk) 02:41, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D (☎ • ✎) 02:57, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Golden Shoe, Lionel Messi 2012-2013 01.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 13:21, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Messi car.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 13:36, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Messi fans.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 20:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Messi trofeo infantil 1992.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 08:36, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Wrong stats provided about Lionel Messi.

The stats which are provided here about Lionel Messi is wrong. His total goals for FC Barcelona is 552 but in wikipedia it's 383. It's very shameful that a website like wikipedia providing wrong information. Raihan Rojo 07 (talk) 10:42, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

• As per all football articles, the number of goals scored is in league games only. You can find the full statistics (including the 552 figure) at Lionel_Messi#Club. Black Kite (talk) 10:45, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Please provide the other official goal amount he scored for FC Barcelona. Also in other players stats. Many people who i know are getting the wrong info about his players stats. Raihan Rojo 07 (talk) 10:51, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Year of first team debut

The article says that Lionel Messi has been playing for Barcelona since 2005, well, this is not right at all, in 2004, Messi was already representing the first team. Even though his senior contract was in 2005, in 2004, he was already in the first squad, so it would be right to have 2004 as the date in which he debuted in the first team, not 2005. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nintendonix (talk • contribs) 10:01, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Cristiano Ronaldo

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Cristiano Ronaldo. There is currently a discussion about changing both that article and this one to read "regarded by many as one of the greatest players of all time". Please discuss at that page. Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC) --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2018

Can i please edit 100.12.41.52 (talk) 22:00, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 22:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

A request for a simple but vital change

I know this is a much debated issue, whether Lionel Messi should be described as the greatest or one of the greats, and that is highly subjective, but what is not subjective and definitely not biased is to describe Lionel Messi as being "Considered by many as the greatest of all time", you can just do a simple search were you would find Many pundits and current/previous players give him credits as the greatest to play the sport. If anyone thinks the above statement about Messi is factually incorrect, please explain how !?Hershedm96 (talk) 01:51, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

RFC Infobox image

The consensus is to use File:Messi vs Nigeria 2018.jpg (Option ϴ) as the infobox image.

RfC participants LivinRealGüd, Oblow14, and Meatsgains are fine with Option ϴ. RfC participant 20DKB03 has not commented after Option ϴ was proposed.

Cunard (talk) 01:08, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Here is a RFC to discuss his infobox image. Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images for relevant guidelines. Q: Which image is best suited for the article's infobox? RfC relisted by Cunard (talk) at 01:08, 12 August 2018 (UTC). LivinRealGüd (talk) 15:44, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

• 
  Option ϴ (Messi with Argentina at the 2018 FIFA World Cup)
• 
  Option 1 (Messi with Argentina at the 2018 FIFA World Cup)
• 
  Option 2 (Messi with Argentina at the 2018 FIFA World Cup)
• 
  Option 3 (Outdated from 2017; just for reference)

Option 1 OR Option ϴ. @F8RIL: Better quality, more in focus on Messi. @ 20DKB03, same thing. Its a higher quality photo. Its not like its constantly being changed. Its a better photo and puts it on the same level as comparable articles. The same happened at Cristiano Ronaldo, its okay to improve images... its okay. Please restore the first image and/or vote. LivinRealGüd (talk) 15:44, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

@LivinRealGüd: Third option is outdated already, so I don't recommend on having it changed back to that. Also, please don't change the current picture (option 2) until it is decided. I do see why you might think the quality is better, but the one that was already being used has better lighting. Yes, it is bigger, but that really doesn't make a difference when they are about the same size in zoom for the player and the pixel size for the image itself on the article. The infobox of Messi's article has been changed 3 different times with 3 different images, so this is the 4th one by now. His wikidata page is something different from option 1 too. 20DKB03 (talk) 04:31, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

@20DKB03: the same thing happened on the Cristiano Ronaldo article. He played in a new game, and his image was replaced. All the images were just zoomed in and pixelated. Then when a high quality picture came out, it was chosen. This is whats happening here. The current image (now changed from option 1 to option 2), is more blurry and out of focus than the other two alternatives. I don't recommend going to the 2017 image either. However, it makes no sense to have a poor image of Messi in the sunlight when there is an alternative that is more in line with the images of Cristiano Ronaldo and others. LivinRealGüd (talk) 04:36, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

@LivinRealGüd: I do see that it is less blurry, since I went through that same exact list of images to upload the ones for Marcos Rojo and Javier Mascherano (which are still in use), though that's because there weren't any previous ones that focused completely on them before. I have uploaded a previous image for Messi before, but I did know why it was removed, due to him being too far away and not even the focus of the camera. The photos of the June 16th match in general weren't the best ones, being low in quality compared to ones from later matches, but I wouldn't say they are that worse. I do understand your point, I just personally didn't want it changed constantly (not really because of it being my upload, especially since I wasn't the first one to begin reverting those types of edits, but mainly since there were already many articles using it, as it was changed quite recently, including ones like 1987 and a few others which you can probably see by going down the list of usage). I do know it's okay to improve. Hopefully it didn't seem like I was truly trying to avoid it. My opinion varies by this point, so I am fine with either decision for option 1 and 2, in case a vote does occur. 20DKB03 (talk) 05:07, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

20DKB03: Can you tell me a little more about that? I just breezed through the edit history and it seemed like option 3 was replaced by option 2 which was in turn replaced by option 1. Replacing option 1 with option 2 makes sense because the former was in 2017 and the latter was in 2018. Then option 1 was added to the infobox as a clearer rendition of option 2. The same situation happened over at Cristiano Ronaldo... what do you mean when you say it is constantly changing. It looks like it was only changed once. By the way, it looks like the images on Marcos Rojo and Javier Mascherano are more similar to option 1 than they are to option 2. LivinRealGüd (talk) 07:10, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Forget option 3, that’s not a great image at all. I went for option 2 as Messi looks unnaturally darker in option 1 (both 2 and 3 are the right shade). Option 2 just looks like a clearer, sharper image of him aided by the natural light. Plus as 20DKB03 stated previously there’s no need for constant changing, especially when an image is a good one, and recent. I also like option 2 in that he’s wearing the team jersey (with captain’s armband), instantly identifiable, as opposed to a training top in 1. F8RIL (talk) 11:20, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Option 3 is fine, its just outdated. Thats the only reason to go to option 1 and 2. Messi looks fine in option 1, there is plenty of 'natural light' and its the fine 'shade', whatever that means. Again, you'll have to explain what 'constant changing' means. Its been changed once; option 2 to option 1. Option 1 is more clearer and sharper. Just click on the image. Him wearing an official Argentina-issued training top versus him wearing a match shirt does not add to any 'instant recognizability', nor does it matter. The only thing I took from your comment was that option 2 is more sunny and you like sunny pictures. LivinRealGüd (talk) 21:54, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Option 3 has him in the middle of a warm up routine, not exactly the best pose for the lead image in a bio. Option 1 is not his natural colour. Whatever lighting is going on there makes him look darker than he is. The difference is obvious with 2 and 3. Option 2 is a good image, right complexion, and it’s needless to change it for changes sake. Your initial reason for changing it, presents him in a “false or disparaging light”, is not a valid one. F8RIL (talk) 22:08, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Option 3 is not really an option because it is outdated. I only included it for comparison. What do you mean "not his natural color"? You mean not in direct Russian sunlight? Then yes, option 1 does not have him in direct sunlight. No one is changing images for changes sake. Once again, please explain to me how it has been changed multiple times. It went from 2017 to 2018, and then a better version of the 2018 image. My initial reason for changing it was that is was a superior image. The same exact practice was done previously be other editors on the Messi article as well as on the Ronaldo one. My initial quotes policy was WP:MUG that was just for image use policy, I then quoted Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images, which backs up what has been discussed. LivinRealGüd (talk) 23:11, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

@F8RIL, @20DKB03, and @LivinRealGüd, I've been reading this but I think I might have the solution here. Oblow14 (talk) 03:31, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

I'll add this to the gallery above as Option ϴ. My main problem is that option 2 is lacking in the quality department. LivinRealGüd (talk) 04:52, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

• Option ϴ - Up to date, great quality, and is simply more flattering IMO. Meatsgains^(talk) 22:43, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.