Talk:List of Arab members of the Knesset

Incomplete

I've been putting this page together in pieces over the last while, and it remains incomplete, particularly between the third and thirteenth Knessets. I have organized the list by party within each Knesset, adding a wikilink the first time a party or person is listed within each Knesset. One difficulty I've had is finding a standard spelling for many Arabic names, as many of these figures are listed differently in various sources, as well as on various Wikipedia pages. If you find Wikipedia entries for more of the figures listed here, please add a wikilink with the proper spelling. The same is true for political parties with both English and Hebrew names. Also, please add this as a *See also where appropriate.Cheeselouise 23:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Name change

I think the title should change to: Arab members of the Knesset. It sounds more correct. --Shamir1 01:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Religion

When MKs have "Christian" or "Druze" appended to their names, their personal theology is not being referred to, but their cultural identity. Removing that info with the rationale that 'they are atheists' doesn't seem appropriate unless we remove all cultural identification. Tewfik^Talk 21:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

In exactly what way is Hisham Nafa's cultural identity different from Mohamed Barakeh? Their cultural identity is Arab. But zionists have a fixation with defining their identity for them in order to divide them. ابو علي 23:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately the Zionist plan has already been effected on articles like Palestinian Christian and Arab citizens of Israel. Are there any other thoughts on the issue? Tewfik^Talk 02:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I am all for consistency. But do you think that List_of_current_members_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives or List of United Kingdom MPs should lable each MP as christain/protestant christain/souther baptist, jew etc? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abu ali (talk • contribs) 10:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

Clearly this has nothing to do with their personal religious beliefs, and so his being an atheist is irrelevant. That Arab citizens of Israel maintain distinct ethnic and religious groupings is noted in that article. Likewise, the demographics of Members of the 110th United States Congress are noted in that entry, and are further detailed in African Americans in the United States Congress, List of Asian Pacific Americans in the United States Congress, and List of Hispanic Americans in the United States Congress. Tewfik^Talk 02:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Uncivil attack removed PalestineRemembered 17:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with the labels being removed - I don't see their relevance, and if someone is really interested, they can click through to the full article on the MKs. Number 57 22:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Reorganised

I have reorganised the article in a way that I think is more concise, and added a few MKs more to the list (I can't find any more on the Knesset website, but I may be mistaken). I have also removed references to religion (apart from Majadele being the first Muslim minister), though if you think they are important you can add them to the comments section. I welcome your opinions on the change. Number 57 14:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I primarily objected to the selective removal on what I viewed as illegitimate grounds (personal religious beliefs instead of cultural identity), but I don't have strong feelings either way. Either way, your organisation is a welcome improvement. Tewfik^Talk 21:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Conflics with the official Knesset website

The Knesset's website allows you do an advanced search for MKs where you can specify "minority" and it will list all the Arab or Druze MKs, and the total it lists is 54 (42 Arab, 12 Druze)--a total not reflected by the 59 listed here. After a closer look, it is apparent that the Knesset website is likely incorrect, as it does not list the following five MKs as being Arab, even though other sources say they are: Haneh Hadad, Abdulwahab Darawshe, Rafik Haj Yahia, Hashem Mahameed, and Walid Sadik. Any ideas for why this may be? Cheeselouise 23:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Majalli Wahabi, Ayoob Kara and Hamad Amar

Majalli Wahabi, Ayoob Kara and Hamad Amar are Israeli Druze. The Druze in Israel are not genetically Arabs. And most importantly they're identity is not Arab. They don't see themselves as Arabs, this is well documented. Therefore Majalli Wahabi, Ayoob Kara and Hamad Amar can not be considered Arabs and should be removed from this article. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree; Druze are a subset of Arabs, just as Christian Arabs are also Arabs. пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

You can not compare Israeli Druze and Christian Arabs. Christian Arabs are genetically Arabs and their identity is Arab. In the case of the Druze in Israel it is the complete opposite, their blood is not arabic and not their identity neither. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

You might want to check Category:Druze, which is a subcat of Category:Arab groups, and the article on Druze, which states "the most accepted theory is that the Druzes are a mixture of stocks in which the Arab largely predominates, while being grafted on to an original mountain population of Aramaic blood." пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Category Arab groups links to Category Druze because the Druze in Syria are of Arab yemenite origin, they are Arabs. This is not the case of the Druze in Israel who are genetically non-Arabs. You have to separate Arab Druze and non-Arab Druze.

This is from the Druze article: "In a 2005 study of ASPM gene variants, Mekel-Bobrov et al. found that the Israeli Druze people of the Carmel region have among the highest rate of the newly-evolved ASPM haplogroup D, at 52.2% occurrence of the approximately 6,000-year-old allele.[49] While it is not yet known exactly what selective advantage is provided by this gene variant, the haplogroup D allele is thought to be positively selected in populations and to confer some substantial advantage that has caused its frequency to rapidly increase. According to DNA testing, Druze are remarkable for their high frequency (35%) of males who carry the Y-chromosomal haplogroup L, which is otherwise uncommon in the Mideast (Shen et al. 2004).[50] This haplogroup originates from prehistoric South Asia."

Haplogroup D: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_D_(Y-DNA)

Haplogroup L: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L_(Y-DNA)

http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Shen2004.pdf

So this shows Druze in Israel are genetically non-Arabs and most importantly, their identity is not Arab. Druze in Israel don't see themselves as Arabs and therefor it is inappropriate and wrong to have non-Arabs in this article about Arab members of Knesset. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

See also Arab citizens of Israel#Druze. Also, please don't bold text; it's the wiki equivalent of shouting. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:51, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes and the article doesn't show one shred of evidence that Druze in Israel are Arabs. Im reverting the article if you fail to show that they are Arabs. I have already provided evidence that they are genetically non-Arabs and culturally is well documented that they dont identify as Arabs including the link you just posted. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

If you want to make such a change, then first change the main article on Arab citizens of Israel and get consensus there that Druze are not part of the Arab community. If you fail to do so, I will revert any attempts at a unilateral change here. пﮟოьεԻ 57 19:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel doesn't say anything about Israeli Druze being Arabs. It only says they are Arabic speakers.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 19:35, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

The article is about Arabs and has a section on Druze. Pretty conclusive to me. пﮟოьεԻ 57 22:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Too bad you cannot read the Hebrew version of the Article about the Druze in Israel, which holds that many Druze - albeit not all - identify themselves as Arab. Not to mention that most of the Druze study in Arab schools; their villages are as poorly funded as the Arab ones; and - are not treated equally by the government even if they did serve in the army. "If it quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck - it must be a chicken" Eblis (talk) 10:37, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Current Knesset has 17 Arabs

All sources I've seen have 17 Arabs in the Knesset. Why does this article list 18? There are no sources from after 2015 election - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 03:07, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Found a source. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-knesset-needs-more-arabs-mks/ Now the issue is that other articles say 16 or 17. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 03:29, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

@Mnnlaxer: The 'current' list included Zouheir Bahloul, who resigned from the Knesset earlier this year. I've removed him. Cheers, Number 57 06:30, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 25 September 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved - there is no consensus regarding the proposed move (closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 (talk) 05:10, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

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List of Arab members of the Knesset → List of Arabic speaking members of the Knesset – to avoid conflict with Druze members IsraeliIdan (talk) 11:26, 25 September 2019 (UTC) IsraeliIdan (talk) 11:26, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

• If nobody commets after 7 days I will move the page. IsraeliIdan (talk) 11:27, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
  • No you won't. You cannot close RMs you have opened yourself. Number 57 13:25, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose Druze are widely regarded as Arabs (they are included in Arab citizens of Israel), and most Israeli Druze identify as such. Also, some Jewish Israelis speak Arabic, and the suggested rename would open up this list to them being included. If a move is really required (and I don't think it is), it could be List of non-Jewish members of the Knesset, but then there are potentially some issues with the Who is a Jew question. Number 57 13:25, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
  • @Number 57: Did you read the article? They are included in this article even though they said they are not Arab.. IsraeliIdan (talk) 14:39, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Yes, I've been updating this article since 2007. Did you read what I wrote above? Number 57 14:43, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
      • @Number 57: I did, and was thinking that maybe because they themselves say that they should not be on this list then maybe we should change it. But I guess not as you oppose.
        • Again: The majority identify as Arab. Number 57 14:54, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose: This seems like a fundamental change for a dubious purpose. Language and ethnicity are quite different concepts. Does the proposer think that Jewish Israelis who speak Arabic should be added to the list? If the idea is that Druze might not be considered Arabic, wouldn't it be simpler to propose moving it to List of Arab and Druze members of the Knesset? —BarrelProof (talk) 01:44, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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