Talk:List of Bach cantatas

Merge?

Should this page be merged with List of cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach? If not, why not? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 04:24, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The older one could be made a redirect, if you ask me, but I was not bold enough to do it, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:54, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Of course it should. And Bach Cantata should be renamed to Cantatas (Bach). Though I'm sure I'll get called an ignorant idiot for suggesting that Bach's cantatas are no different than any other Barqoue composer as opposed to some wierdo special genre unto themselves. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree, but please add your point of view to the (long) discussion there, you are not the first one to think so, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:54, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the proposal to redirect List of cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach (A) to List of Bach cantatas (B). As for merging: I see three works listed in A which are not listed in B: BWV 1083, BWV 1127, BWV Anh18; these also appear in Template:Bach cantatas. The sections "See also" and the external links could also be merged. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:26, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

 Done after inserting the three missing ones in the list, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:04, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Linking to YouTube videos??

Please forgive a tyro asking/suggesting something. It would clearly be of value to many if links could be provided to performances of the music. YouTube currently has uploads of the complete Teldec Bach sacred cantatas, conducted by Harnoncourt and Leonhardt. It would be possible to edit the table to link each cantata to its performance in that cycle. Problems with this: YouTube videos get deleted, either due to a change of mind of the uploader or, more commonly, due to the the copyright holder complaining to YouTube. But what if, somehow, a responsible party (Wikivideo? :-) could ensure a stable, persistent YouTube upload of this great music. Would it be within the rules of Wikipedia to link to those videos? There are clearly issues with this possibility; I am just trying to float it as a possibility to see what the Wikipedia experts think about it. Thank you for your consideration, thoughts and advice. KHarbaugh (talk) 22:57, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that seeking to disregard copyright or attempting to abolish it will be seen as a worthwhile goal by the Wikimedia Foundation or by the more sober members of the community. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:52, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

There are many cases where the copyright holder uploads to YouTube, making their work freely available to the general public. Examples: radio4nl and University of California Television (UCTV). What would be the attitude towards linking to such? KHarbaugh (talk) 23:47, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Link away … Template:YouTube is thataway. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:47, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

== Where has BWV 82a (the soprano version of ''Ich habe genug'') gone? == Why was (the soprano version of ''Ich habe genug'') BWV 82a not included in the list? Was it overlooked, or is there some logic to it not being listed here? <small><font style="color:#C0C0C0;font-family:Courier New;">Contact </font><font style="color:blue;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User:Basemetal|Basemetal]]</font> <font style="color:red;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User talk:Basemetal|here]]</font></small> 03:55, 4 February 2014 (UTC) {{ping|Gerda Arendt}} BWV 82a mentioned at cantata BWV 82 page but not yet here? <small><font style="color:#C0C0C0;font-family:Courier New;">Contact </font><font style="color:blue;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User:Basemetal|Basemetal]]</font> <font style="color:red;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User talk:Basemetal|here]]</font></small> 11:46, 4 February 2014 (UTC)Basemetal 11:56, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

It has not gone, it never was here before. Historically, there have been other cantatas handled in one article, see BWV 36, BWV 120 and many more. I don't know why those were listed here separately. Possibly because they differed more than Just scoring. Go ahead, change if you think it's useful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:22, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

== BWV Anh. 18 versus BWV Anh. <u>I</u> 18, and so on. == The table of Bach cantatas in this file lists with the prefix "BWV Anh. <u>I</u>" the numbers from the BWV Anhang which are otherwise everywhere else I've seen (elsewhere in WP, at IMSLP, etc.) listed simply with prefix "BWV Anh.". (See e.g. the BWV Anh. 18 mentioned in the section heading which is listed here as BWV Anh. I 18: both refer of course to the same cantata "Froher Tag, verlangte Stunden" whose music has been lost). Now my question is: What does that "<u>I</u>" stand for? Why is it used here? Who uses "BWV Anh. I" instead of simply "BWV Anh."? <small><font style="color:#C0C0C0;font-family:Courier New;">Contact </font><font style="color:blue;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User:Basemetal|Basemetal]]</font> <font style="color:red;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User talk:Basemetal|here]]</font></small> 16:41, 8 February 2014 (UTC)Basemetal 11:59, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

I guess the Roman numeral "I" distinguishes it from books II and III; see BWV Anh List. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:08, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

::What I see in the listing at the Bach Cantata site page you mention is Anh., Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">I</span>, Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">II</span> and Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">III</span>, not a division of Anh. into Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">I</span>, Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">II</span> and Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">III</span>. What those <span style="font-family:serif;">I</span>, <span style="font-family:serif;">II</span> and <span style="font-family:serif;">III</span> guys are for I'm not sure, but they all list works which have already some other BWV number (including BWV Anh. numbers). ::All the works given in this article as Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">I</span> are actually given at Bach Cantata as Anh., and that's consistent for example with the [http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Johann_Sebastian_Bach listing at IMSLP], and in fact that's also consistent with the way those works are refered to in WP <u>except</u> at this article. ::I propose replacing all the Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">I</span> in this article with Anh. That will lessen confusion and bring things in line with what's done elsewhere. I'll wait for a few days and if there's no objections I'll just go ahead. ::<small><font style="color:#C0C0C0;font-family:Courier New;">Contact </font><font style="color:blue;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User:Basemetal|Basemetal]]</font> <font style="color:red;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User talk:Basemetal|here]]</font></small> 17:25, 9 February 2014 (UTC) ::If you're curious how Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">I</span> got into the article, the English article is by and large a translation of the German article, and the edit that introduced Anh. <span style="font-family:serif;">I</span> into the German article seems to be [https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Liste_der_Bachkantaten&oldid=72798653 this one] ::<small><font style="color:#C0C0C0;font-family:Courier New;">Contact </font><font style="color:blue;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User:Basemetal|Basemetal]]</font> <font style="color:red;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User talk:Basemetal|here]]</font></small> 17:54, 9 February 2014 (UTC)Basemetal 11:59, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

History merge request

There was a request to history-merge this page. I declined it for reasons I laid out in a message at my talk page. Graham87 15:10, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate your opinion, Graham, but I'm still not convinced. You'll never find two page histories that are absolutely not overlapping, because usually the old one becomes a redirect after the second one is created. These superfluous revisions are routinely just discarded. If you don't mind, I'd like to also hear the opinion of Anthony Appleyard, who has analyzed my previous requests. I consider the situation as being similar to a complete revision: Gerda could have done it on the original article, if she was aware of it (and she probably was, because the German article had an interwiki to the original article here); but she preferred to start a new one instead. It doesn't change the fact that there was a continuum between the two articles (but with the loss of the first article's edit history, when it was converted into a redirect.) With respect to the talk pages, their histories are not overlapping, so they could be merged as well. Regards, —capmo (talk) 18:07, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

• The history of List of cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach (except 2 stray late edits) finishes before the start of the history of List of Bach cantatas. But their texts at the jump point are very different, and there seems to have been no cut-and-paste event; and the edit comment on the first edit of List of Bach cantatas says directly "(Translation from de, a start)" (i.e. likeliest a new start by translating from German de:Liste der Bachkantaten). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:21, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for attending my RfC, Anthony. I see your point; I would have preferred that Gerda had done it the proper way, by proposing on the original article's talk page to rewrite it from scratch, and started working on it only after hearing from the previous editors. Merging page histories would've corrected in part this lack of communication. Regards, —capmo (talk) 19:08, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I never heard of that "proper way". I wrote a new article under a new title. That the old one was redirected was decided in a discussion only afterwards, - I had rather planned to keep it. Talking to previous editors would have meant mostly talking to myself, as you will know having studied the history of that article. - It's a proper way to speak to me, not about me. Wir danken, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:40, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry Gerda, but this is no excuse. If a discussion to merge the articles could take place, a similar discussion to improve the original article would also have been possible. You were aware that the articles would need to be merged at some point eventually, because the German article you were translating from was already linked to the other article here, and you knew that. Regards, —capmo (talk) 18:00, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

I often create an article where one already exists, in order not to step on the toes of the other editors. They can coexist, even link from one to the other, see The Creation (Haydn) and The Creation structure, It was not my idea to make one a redirect in this case. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

I see. That's a valid approach too, but in this case the two articles were too similar to coexist, unfortunately. Anyway, what is done is done. Regardless of this specific case, I appreciate your work in improving articles on classical music in general. Regards, —capmo (talk) 18:29, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Redlinks

• Violin Concerto movement, BWV 1045:
  • Some info contained in the table at List of Bach cantatas#List of cantatas under BWV 1045.
  • Sources:
    • List of Bach cantatas: Scores at the International Music Score Library Project
    • http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV1045.htm
    • http://www.jsbachcantatas.com/documents/chapter-55-bwv-50-bwv-200-bwv-1045.htm
    • http://www.bach-digital.de/receive/BachDigitalWork_work_00001227?lang=en

Nomination for merging of Template:Bach cantatas

Template:Bach cantatas has been nominated for merging with Template:Cantatas, motets and oratorios by BWV number. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:58, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

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