Talk:List of Bugis people

Page move

@The Bangsawan: I'm not entirely happy with the page move. Just because there is a tendency in certain sources to conflate the two ethnicities for political reasons (as was heavily promoted by the late Prof. Mattulada) or out of sheer ignorance (I've met so many people from western Indonesia who wouldn't know that the two groups are distinct, at least as distinct as the Sundanese and the Javanese), we can still do a better job. Austronesier (talk) 22:27, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Pinging also @Han4299: for the Makassarese view point on this matter. –Austronesier (talk) 22:29, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Good morning @Austronesier: & @Han4299:, the article is largely translated from the Indonesian version. I recently noticed that some of the notable Makassarese individuals are also listed on the aforementioned Indonesian Wikipedia article. --د بڠساون (talk) 00:02, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Makassar and Bugis people have quite a difference in language. Even more different between "Minang and Malay", "Javanese and Osing", "Toba and Mandailing", "Aceh and Cham", even the lexical similarities are still much lower than "Javanese and Sundanese". Makassar and Bugis just have 37% of lexical similarity (according Grimes and Grimes). Even though they have many similarities in cultural appearance, the fact is that they do not understand each other. From a historical point of view, the Bugis are rivals for Makassar, and Makassar has been a rival for the Bugis from the past until now. Until now Makassar people are reluctant to be called Bugis. Some Makassar people also don't like the term "Bugis-Makassar". The similarities between Bugis and Toraja languages are still closer than Makassar languages.

From manuscript records (especially Patturioloang (Makassar), Attoriolong (Bugis)) they call these two groups different. In the manuscripts, the Makassarese call them Bugisi' and the Makassarese themselves are Mangkasara'. Whereas the Bugis in the manuscript call Makassar with Mangkasa', the Bugis themselves call themselves Ugi'/Ogi'. The Makassar people's disgust at being called Bugis has also resulted in an ultra-ethnic movement and hatred for the Makassar people towards the Bugis because they feel that Makassar has always been ostracized. Han4299 (talk) 01:45, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I recommend to use "List of South Sulawesi descendent" than "List of Bugis-Makassar People" Han4299 (talk) 01:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification @Han4299:, I'm quite aware on how divergent these two groups are. But my concern is some of the prominent individuals listed in the article might be erroneously categorized as Bugis despite the fact that the person might potentially of Makassarese descent. Their biodata sources too is also vague, just because a person is born in Makassar city, doesn't mean that he is automatically Bugis or Makassar. :/

I'm not sure how to bridge the gap in the article, but the "List of South Sulawesi descendent" as suggested by Han4299 can be one of possible alternatives. Although the naming (by merging the province and descent) convention is almost rare in the Wikipedia format. --د بڠساون (talk) 02:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

or a list of "Bugis and Makassarese" people? --د بڠساون (talk) 03:00, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Maybe I can help you separate the Makassar figures on the list. Han4299 (talk) 10:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I just made List Makassar people in Sandbox Indonesian Wikipedia, if you interest visit Han4299 (talk) 11:06, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Splendid, thank you for the help Han4299! =) --د بڠساون (talk) 12:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

And oh, I returned the page to its original name, as the content will be much more detailed.--د بڠساون (talk) 12:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I already made it.

Daftar tokoh Makassar - Wikipedia bahasa Indonesia, ensiklopedia bebas

maybe something can be corrected? Han4299 (talk) 17:02, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Cool, by the way I noticed that Once Mekel is a Makassarese according to Tribunnews (which, in a way resulted why I changed the article's name a few days back lol) - Tribun Lampung - Biodata Once Mekel, Penyanyi Solo Berdarah Makassar Mantan Vokalis Dewa 19 --د بڠساون (talk) 23:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

References