Talk:List of Chi Phi chapters/Archive 1
Latest comment: 1 year ago by Rublamb in topic Combined table
 | This is an archive of past discussions about List of Chi Phi chapters. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 |
Page creation note
I created this page in accordance with the usual Wikipedia policy of not having an entire chapter listing on a fraternity's article. Jmlk17 21:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Combined table
One of our project editors had been working on this page, where our standard list format was challenged by the very complex formation story of Chi Phi as it exists today. Our aim is clarity. In this case, I thought it valuable to add a column for the predecessor branch of the fraternity and to split the city and state (or country), all with sortable columns. Here's what I have come up with so far, offered for discussion (late January 2023). Note that this list will also be adjusted in order by date of formation, not by alphabetical order, following our standard template. Thoughts? Jax MN (talk) 17:18, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- You read my mind in where to go with this but I was conflicted, mainly because someone from the fraternity (with inside info on dates and chapter closures) had worked on this list and it appears that the existing names may be Chi Phi's preference. For example, there are instances where there is a Southern Order chapter, etc. followed by the First. The first being the first chapter of that name after the merger. With your proposal, we could be renaming the chapters from the fraternity's standard usage. Nevertheless, as I merged, I left the list in alphabetical order to make it easier to rename the chapters and reach a consensus on how to proceed. Of course, another strategy would be to treat this as five fraternities with different articles. Baird's 1st and second editions should have the content needed to support stand-alone articles.
- The only issues to resolve before moving forward with your proposal are:
- 1) The Almanac and the fraternity's article call some of the Orders by different names. We need to confirm whether United or Northern is correct and whether Hobart or Secret Society is correct.
- 2) I think the Almanac lists the wrong Order for a few chapters as there are two chapters with the same name at the same time. We need to refer to an older version of Baird's for confirmation of the Orders and their various chapters rather than the Almanac.
- 3) We should look for a Chi Phi directory to see if they do, in fact, have naming standards for these older chapters. If they do, I think we should retain their names, but still add the Order column.
- 4) Earlier editors had removed the Order name for modern or active chapters. I temporarily addressed this by adding an efn indicating the Order. The efn will need to be removed or updated if an order column is added. Rublamb (talk) 19:22, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for getting back so quickly. Indeed, the short-lived northern merger group gave way to the United Order, but the Archive doesn't separate out those chapters. Hence, in this model, I've been simply using United Order (The archive doesn't split out the Northern Order once the merger dominos started to fall.) I've gotten this done through variants of Pi chapter and Alpha-Pi, which set of five chapters are a Gordian Knot mess of names. The example list is updated, below. Jax MN (talk) 19:45, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- Well I did spend a good part of yesterday merging and expanding this list... I thought this was a straightforward project but quickly realized how messy it was. I believe I found all of the chapters in the Almanac that were missing from the list, but suspect there are still a few lacking based on gaps in the Greek alphabet. Another item to look for in Baird's. Yesterday, I actually updated the list from Northern Order to United Order based on the Almanac's notes then later realized the fraternity's article uses Northern and does not refer to United at all. I also switched to Hobart based on the Almanac, but the fraternity article says the group formed at Hobart and was called the Secret Society of Chi Phi. I suspect the latter (Secret Society) is correct and should be reverted. These were questions I have not researched yet. But thankfully we both like a challenge. Rublamb (talk) 21:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- I've taken it as far as I can, from a comparison of Baird's and the online chapter list Chi Phi Chapters. There is still some ambiguity regarding Pi chapter, Alpha Pi and the fact that a few colonies were named, causing some confusion if they are listed among the chartered groups. As the updated list is now in mainspace, I will delete the example, here. Jax MN (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- I've determined three of the supposed five Hobart Society chapters, marked as such in the Baird's Archive, and have noted their branches accordingly. Can anyone determine the other two? Jax MN (talk) 00:36, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- I have found several 19th-century sources, one includes an article on the Hobart Society. I will check to see if it adds any insight. My quick review of these older sources noted several chapter name changes/variations, so I quickly logged out before getting pulled in deeper. For example, Alpha-Alpha (UNC) was formed as the Alpha chapter. Apparently, the requirement to change the chapter name was a point of contention at the time of the merger. Rublamb (talk) 03:46, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- I've determined three of the supposed five Hobart Society chapters, marked as such in the Baird's Archive, and have noted their branches accordingly. Can anyone determine the other two? Jax MN (talk) 00:36, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- I've taken it as far as I can, from a comparison of Baird's and the online chapter list Chi Phi Chapters. There is still some ambiguity regarding Pi chapter, Alpha Pi and the fact that a few colonies were named, causing some confusion if they are listed among the chartered groups. As the updated list is now in mainspace, I will delete the example, here. Jax MN (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- Well I did spend a good part of yesterday merging and expanding this list... I thought this was a straightforward project but quickly realized how messy it was. I believe I found all of the chapters in the Almanac that were missing from the list, but suspect there are still a few lacking based on gaps in the Greek alphabet. Another item to look for in Baird's. Yesterday, I actually updated the list from Northern Order to United Order based on the Almanac's notes then later realized the fraternity's article uses Northern and does not refer to United at all. I also switched to Hobart based on the Almanac, but the fraternity article says the group formed at Hobart and was called the Secret Society of Chi Phi. I suspect the latter (Secret Society) is correct and should be reverted. These were questions I have not researched yet. But thankfully we both like a challenge. Rublamb (talk) 21:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for getting back so quickly. Indeed, the short-lived northern merger group gave way to the United Order, but the Archive doesn't separate out those chapters. Hence, in this model, I've been simply using United Order (The archive doesn't split out the Northern Order once the merger dominos started to fall.) I've gotten this done through variants of Pi chapter and Alpha-Pi, which set of five chapters are a Gordian Knot mess of names. The example list is updated, below. Jax MN (talk) 19:45, 29 January 2023 (UTC)