Talk:List of Disney+ original programming/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Ordered vs in development

There are several series that are listed 'in development' while these series are actually ordered by Disney+. This includes Love, Simon, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, the upcoming Obi-Wan Kenobi limited series, Marvel's Storyboards and the new season of Lizze McGuire. The current table mixes those shows with series that do not have a series order like Life and Deaf, a Willow sequel series, the True Lies series, the Ice Age series,.

To me, the shows that have a series order from Disney should be listed as ordered with a release date of TBA and not in development as the series is ordered by Disney. In this case the page follows the same principal as other lists on Wikipedia like List of original programs distributed by Apple TV+, List of original programs distributed by CBS All Access and List of original programs distributed by Amazon where series orders are completely seperated from series in development with no series order. Any thoughts? Virin1009 (talk) 08:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

I agree. For tables with statues columns, we could then use "Pre-production", "Filming", "Post-production" etc if we need to be specific. Starforce¹³ 13:29, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Good to know I'm not the only one who wants this changed. I'm not sure if "Pre-production", "Filming", "Post-production" have to be listed as status because the lists from Netflix, Amazon and Hulu don't have this and could be confusing to new readers. I think it's best if we maintain consistency with the other lists. Perhaps we could remove the status column and put it back when Disney+ launches. The list from Apple TV+ doesn't have a status column either, for example as Apple TV+ hasn't launched yet. Anyway, I'll leave the discussion open and wait for more responses Virin1009 (talk) 15:19, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I don't think we should have the status column for upcoming shows. If it were up to me, I would merge both "In development" and "Ordered" into just "Upcoming" the way it's done on the Netflix page. Instead of a status column, it would be a date - which can be TBA. Once the show premieres, it moves to the table for original programming which would then have a status. Unlike TV networks that announce all their orders, streaming services order shows but keep details under wraps depending on their marketing strategy. same thing goes for announcing release dates which doesn't necessarily reflect the actual status. But yes, if it's not following the Netflix model, it should follow the AppleTV+, Hulu etc which seems to be the new convention. Starforce¹³ 18:41, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, the Netflix model is something we can look at when Disney+ launches. There is still a big difference between a series order and a series in development which is why I prefer the Apple TV+ and Hulu model. I have moved several series to 'Ordered' so 'In development' has less productions listed now. If anything has to be changed, let me know! Virin1009 (talk) 07:20, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Marvel Shows

The Marvel shows are limited series, not regular TV shows. They will not be getting second seasons (and if they do it will be the exception, not the norm). B91302 (talk) 13:39, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Not sure what you want changed or enforced here. But, we'll only call them "limited series" if Disney officially calls them such. If not, let's not make assumptions. Starforce¹³ 16:44, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

This recent article describes Hawkeye as a "limited series". https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/hailee-steinfeld-interview-hawkeye-disney-plus-dickinson-apple-1203378527/

WandaVision has been described as an "event series".

The evidence is there. But I suppose if you want to wait for official word from Disney that's fine... Regards, B91302 (talk) 03:12, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Big Red

What's up with Big Red? A while ago it appeared on upcoming original scripted series, then it just disappeared. About a week ago, it reappeared, and now it's gone again. Skyshot16 (talk) 21:25, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

It has never been confirmed by a reliable source. So, if someone adds it here based on whatsondisneyplus.com or some other sites without credibility, it will be removed. That might explain why you may see it one day and then it's removed the next. Starforce¹³ 21:30, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Some blog sites wrongly reported that it was being developed after the name appeared on the productions filming in Georgia site, but this in fact the working title for WandaVision [1]. - Brojam (talk) 22:30, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Oh yeah I remember seeing the list of those working titles. That's must be where they're getting it from.Starforce¹³ 00:03, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

"Rio" and "Ice Age" TV series "In Development"

DiscussingFilm says there are TV series being developed at Disney+ about "Ice Age" and "Rio". This page delivered reliable news (like when they confirmed Tom Ellis to appear in "Crisis on Infinite Earths" as Lucifer, or "The Not Too Late Show with Elmo" back in September, or when Daniel Dorrance joined the new "Planet of the Apes" movie as the production designer, later to be confirmed on his IMDb), but when I said those two series were being developped someone took it down. Can someone put back the TV series as being in development? El Junglas (talk) 00:05, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. @El Junglas: Would you take care to properly format these references and suggest which section these go in? RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 02:42, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

It’s a Dog’s Life with Bill Farmer

Could someone change from “Pending” to “Season 1 ongoing” 2600:1700:DA60:E010:756B:FCAE:680A:88E7 (talk) 11:52, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of original programs distributed by Netflix which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

For 101DS

With the British Disney Channel shutting down, I think it is best (if no new episodes for a year) to say that its cancelled instead of ended. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 06:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

The Right Stuff season 2 status

Two things. I don't understand why the most recent reference was recently removed. It's legitimate. Also, it states a specific date as to when season 2 will start filming, confirming it has been renewed. So, it should state renewed and not pending as even if the older reference hasn't confirmed the renewal, the more recent reference has. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 20:27, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

@Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: It’s not really about how recent the source was published it’s about what the sources convey. The Deadline source was very specific about stating that the show was not yet renewed despite the tax credit. I’ve read the NBC source top to bottom, I don’t see where in the article it says the show was renewed. Rusted AutoParts 20:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I understand the confusion now. It states the second season will shoot in San Diego for 88 days starting in March. Is that not a confirmation? Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 20:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

It has the tax credit to film at that time, but the show itself hasn’t been renewed yet per Deadline. Rusted AutoParts 20:53, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from now. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 20:57, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Side note, this is purely speculation on my end, but it not being mentioned at all during the Investor Day is a bad sign in my opinion about it's renewal chances. Rusted AutoParts 05:01, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Possibly but I doubt it. They've already secured the tax credit and have set filming dates. If I was Disney and I was looking for investors, I'd definitely focus on Marvel and Star Wars in my pitch. It doesn't mean that's all they're doing but we'll see. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 22:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Exclusive international distribution

The decision to include exclusive international distribution in the Disney+ original programming page, in my opinion, makes no sense as these exclusive international distribution programmings are not marketed nor branded as Disney+ originals by Disney. I understand that these programmes debut exclusively on Disney+ in other regions, however, they still had their official release on another channel or service in the United States or another region beforehand. In addition, as Disney Channel closes in even more markets due to Disney+, this will lead to the problem where all Disney Channel content will be exclusively distributed onto Disney+ in international markets, while still likely retaining a US Disney Channel release until further notice. I feel to make it easier for everyone unless Disney markets or brands exclusive internationally distributed programmes as Disney+ Originals like how Netflix does with their programmes, I believe it should be excluded for the time being. Of course, unless someone can prove that they are marketed or branded in these ways I'm happy to retract this dispute. LFLEncycolpedia (talk) 22:55, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Luke Skywalker/Kingdom Hearts

I find these to be of questionable sourcing. I’ve never known Fandomwire to be a site to make announcements such as this, and with Kingdom Hearts there hasn’t been anything outside of “reportedly”, IGN even going as far as to put “if true” in their articles last sentence. With the Percy Jackson one it helps the author of the books is actively talking about it and the others at least are coming from very reliable sources in the industry. Any else feel Skywalker and Kingdom Hearts should be pulled until stronger confirmation there’s something in development? Rusted AutoParts 12:13, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

I totally agree, I was rather suspicious of the sources too. I think Kingdom Hearts shouldn't really be included in this article until more reliable sources can be cited because "reportedly developing" indicates it's (probably) just a rumour and there hasn't been any definite news of series development. News of a Kingdom Hearts series in development also hasn't been announced by any of the main entertainment news sources (Deadline, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter etc.) which to me seems quite questionable. As for the Luke Skywalker series, I also haven't heard of FandomWire but the difference here is that it seems to have exclusive news on the project. However, I still don't think it's very reliable. Apd9696 (talk) 13:13, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

It’s also probably worth noting neither of these projects were mentioned during the Investor Day. Of course to be fair a lot of these In Development shows weren’t but again they have the benefit of being reported on by Deadline or Hollywood Reporter. Rusted AutoParts 13:21, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts:If the Skywalker project is legit, it wouldn't have been mentioned because the Mandalorian season finale had not aired yet. They didn't announce the Boba Fett series either. I find it likely as I don't think they're about to abandon baby Yoda and a Luke series is the way to keep him at this point. As far as the source, the news seemed legit but if it's unreliable that's my bad. I think we should look for other sources first but if there aren't any reliable ones then clearly it shouldn't be included yet. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 00:41, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

As I said above, alot of the in development shows weren't mentioned at Investor Day. The Boba Fett one has been reliably confirmed by strong sources and the production team so it's able to be added. AFAIK, FandomWire are the ones breaking this news and it's not being backed up by any other major news cites like Deadline. This was a similar dilemma had about the new Spider-Man, where certain big news being broken by some places and not by other more reliable ones. A Luke Skywalker show would be a bigger story being reported on than just the website that hosts specific fandom wikis. Rusted AutoParts 00:47, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

I believe it is in early stages of development. However, based on what you've said I'm going to remove it. I added it so that shouldn't be an issue. I'll look for other sources to confirm it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 01:02, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts:I removed it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 01:04, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Shorts

It is probably worth to have a discussion on shorts (series format, not the clothing). Some are adamant to add it to the table, but I dont see the point in separating series based on the length of the episodes. Because of three reasons: a) length of every series episodes has a separate column, if you want to identify shorts, just sort that column b) where do you draw the line? when does a short suddenly become regular length? if it is 7 mins its a short, if it is 11 mins it is not? etc. c) if a series has both 7 min and 49 min episodes where will you put it?

Due to above reasons I do not support having separate shorts section. Picsovina (talk) 20:35, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I totally agree, I think it's unnecessary to have a sub-section for short form series because of the reasons laid out above. I'd just like to point out that naming the sub-section "shorts" would be incorrect to some extent as when one uses the term "shorts" they usually refer to "short films", so here on this TV-related article "short form" would be a more appropriate section name. Apd9696 (talk) 22:39, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't consider something that is 7 minutes long to be a TV show, cause it's not, which is why I want to see it separated. Last time I checked this was not Quibi. If "short form" is better I am now editing it to say that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelousMusician397 (talk • contribs) 22:58, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Update: Looked into the issue with Zenimation having a range of 5 minutes to 49 minutes, and the 49 minute is just one episode (the last one) that is distinctly labeled as a special "Extended edition," further proving that the series is typically short-form with this one bonus episode being long form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelousMusician397 (talk • contribs) 23:06, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

We have not yet reached a consensus, and until a consensus is reached there shouldn't be any edits regarding this matter. Saying that these short form series don't count as TV shows is not right – just because they have very short episodes it doesn't mean they're not TV shows. These short form series are episodic and were released on a streaming network, just like The Mandalorian (for example). The only difference is that one has longer episodes. Technically speaking, The Mandalorian is a long-form series and Zenimation is a short-form series. They're both series. Apd9696 (talk) 23:30, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, so as you just said one is a long-form series (aka a typical TV show in the minds of most people) and another is short-form. Two different things. I think it is misleading to display these short-form shows as if they were full length series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelousMusician397 (talk • contribs) 01:27, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I still dont agree with this due to aforementioned reasons, but I just saw the Disney+ trailer for the January releases and they also promote shorts separately. Anyway if we stick with shorts, it has to apply to all shows then and we need to either have shorts subsection for every genre or have a separate table for all the shows that Disney+ itself calls shorts. If we must, I would prefer the latter.Picsovina (talk) 00:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I have just checked Disney+ and shorts are separated from series in the originals section of the streaming service. This shorts section is comprised of short films, short form animated series, and short form unscripted series. If we reach a consensus where we are keeping the shorts sub-section then I would prefer the second option proposed above too, although the other option works just as well but it is a bit harder to maintain and more complicated. Also @MarvelousMusician397: Yes, they are both different formats but they are still both television series (they are called short-form series and long-form series, it's in the name.) Even though the short-form series were among long-form series in the tables in this article, readers can easily see the episode runtimes for each series, and this makes it easy to distinguish which series are short-form and which are long-form. Anyways as it happened short-form series and long-form series were already mostly separated before this discussion. Apd9696 (talk) 01:07, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry I don't know how to directly reply on this, but @Picsovina I think either of those work, but I also think a separate table alltogether works best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelousMusician397 (talk • contribs) 03:02, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Star Originals

Shouldn't originals debuting on the Star part of the Disney+ be included here as well? Not sure the best way to incorporate it but they are basically going to be treated as Disney+ originals for the countries that have Star instead of Hulu it seems. MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 15:30, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure and it might be a bit too early to tell given that nothing has been released yet. But technically that makes sense, thanks for bringing this up. Apd9696 (talk) 16:11, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

No problem. I think having its own section alongside "Original" and "Upcoming" will be tangly once Star has shows start airing. I saw your comment that Star was separate and that's only true in one market (Latin America, I think?). Everywhere else such as Canada, Australia, Europe, etc, it's going to be an fully integrated section of Disney+ same as Marvel, Pixar, and National Geographic are. Might be fine to just leave it as is now until it starts up in February, but think it might need reworking once it has some shows airing while other are still upcoming or in development.MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 17:50, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I should've made it more clear. What I meant was that when promoting the shows on Investor Day Disney treated Star as a separate network. I think this is because Star is unavailable in certain countries (like the US) because of Hulu, so having Star originals among Disney+ originals could possibly be a bit misleading. But it is explained that Star is only available in some international markets, so that could clear up some possible confusion. For now I'd say we wait until February when we can see what Star looks like and we can take it from there. Apd9696 (talk) 18:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree with you on having Star Originals being misleading in this article. Since these shows (Love, Victor and Big Sky) have already premiered in the US on Hulu and ABC (and most of all: these shows won't be available on Disney+ in some markets), I don't think these shows (as well as the upcoming Star Originals) should be listed in this article. On another note, Star (Disney+) has mostly the same tables listed. To keep things clear, I suggest we remove 'Star Originals' from this article and update the ones on Star (Disney+). We could add something in the beginning like 'For original programs distributed by Star, see Star (Disney+) Virin1009 (talk) 14:30, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

We are not putting a series of tables in that list off the shows that actually air on another network here too. A brief sentence explaining what it does is succinct enough. Rusted AutoParts 18:09, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@MarvelousMusician397: you didn’t get any sort of consensus to do your edits, you essentially just agreed with yourself. Rusted AutoParts 18:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Pretty sure @Apd9696: is not me talking to myself. Even if I was, you have to hear how hypocritical what you just said is right? Apd9696 also contributes much more to this page than you or myself (evident by a quick look at the edits), so by all accounts you are currently in the minority for this change.

And Apd said “wait until February”. Yet you went ahead anyway. We aren’t making lists of all the shows they’ll be airing here from other networks. It’s needless duplication when it exists at their respective channels programming articles. Put a note over on those pages that they’re considered Star originals, not add tables here. This is for specifically Disney+ originals made specifically for Disney+ Rusted AutoParts 18:18, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

That was in reference to deciding whether or not to keep it as a separate chart or incoprorate with the rest of the Disney+ originals, and as I've told you multiple times now and Apd also edited himself this morning: these shows are being promoted as Star Originals as oppposed to Disney+ originals. Myself and Apd have both been updating this chart since, you are the only one that has a problem with it and that does not mean you get to do whatever you want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelousMusician397 (talk • contribs) 18:21, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

You seem to be ignoring @Virin1009:’s input. They don’t seem to agree. Rusted AutoParts 18:25, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Tell you what let’s get an actual consensus going. Pinging other frequent editors. @Picsovina: @Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: Rusted AutoParts 18:30, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I have to agree with Rusted AutoParts and Virin1009, Star has its own page going on and it lists all the shows that are going to premiere there, so it seems a duplication to include all those on this page. I am not opposed to have an entry for Star on this page explaining what it is etc. but not detailed programming tables, we should just add a link to the Star page. Picsovina (talk) 18:38, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Personally I think that it is OK for Star originals to be included here since they are released in a similar way to series we would classify as "exclusive international distribution". Technically, these Star originals are having exclusive first-run premieres on Star in multiple countries (like the UK where I live), and Star will be integrated into Disney+. Therefore, these Star originals are getting their exclusive first-run premieres on Disney+ for all the countries where Star is available. This page is for original shows that were produced by Disney and have premiered/will premiere exclusively on Disney+ (as Disney+ originals). Looking at it this way, all of these Star originals are also Disney+ originals, but I do see where this could be potentially misleading and problematic. The more obvious reason is that Star is not available in some countries (eg. the US, which is where Disney is based). This also creates some confusion as it would appear that the original networks of the shows included is both Disney+ and Hulu (for example), which is technically incorrect. However, this totally ignores other territories and so does not make for an international-friendly Wikipedia article. I don't really mind where we go with this, but to me including Star originals on this page makes sense. There is something that could also work well here and that is what @Virin1009: suggested doing - adding a hatnote which would lead readers to the Star (Disney+) page which is where all of the Star originals are already. This way the Star originals are included in this article (to some degree) and repetition of tables is avoided. Also, when I said to wait until February I meant that we should leave it as it is for now until February when Star has launched; apologies for any confusion there. Apd9696 (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I think either one works, but I agree 100% with this explanation of why they should stay on the page and why these are Star originals are also really Disney+ originals. Also agreeing with what you said about how this article can't be just for Disney+ US, that's just not what it is, exhbit A being the other table for international exclusives. One compromise I will suggest though is that we can leave currently airing programs (the main chart + "Awaiting release") on this page, but include a link to the Star page for all of the "upcoming" programming. This still makes this page representative of the international Disney+ app but also gets rid of some tables.

There should absolutely be a hatnote navigating readers to the Star page. If there’s to be any programming tables it should be there, just not here. These shows aren’t D+ originals. Rusted AutoParts 18:45, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think Star originals should be included on this page. It's a separate streamer in name and brand. Star should have its own page with its content. I agree that there should be a sentence or two because of the cross over. Both on the Disney+ page and the original content page. The shows should be listed as originals on the network or streamer they originally appear on with information that they appear as star originals elsewhere. And even when they appear on the Star page, it should be noted who initially produced them. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:17, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

The consensus here seems to be that anybody from the U.S. wants this to be a strictly U.S. Disney+ page, which it is not. I understand why some do not want this, but as @Apd9696: and myself have explained, no matter how much you want to argue it, these are Originals for the countries in which Star is available, and this has been confirmed by Disney this morning (https://deadline.com/2021/01/disney-star-tv-movies-big-sky-24-lost-love-victor-die-hard-1234664258/) If Star is apart of Disney+ (which it is, no different than Marvel, Pixar, National Geographic) than Star Originals are Disney+ originals. To those saying I didn't reach a consensus before I made any changes, this very thread we are discussing it proves otherwise. I made the initial change, sought feedback and said it could be changed if people thought so. No one else replied to me until today when people started to ruin the work of others simply because they felt like it. I have edited down the Star section to be under the international exclusives, with the note that others suggested to refer to the Star page for more information. Unlike some I am open to discussion and change and compromise, but any rash editing decisions to undo this without further discussion I will continue to revert. MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 19:57, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

These edits are not based on what people feel like. They are based on how Wikipedia is structured. Star is a seperate streaming service from Disney+, even if it's combined in some countries. These programs are not Disney+ original programming and so shouldn't be included here. Especially because Star has its own page and it's just unnecessary and inaccurate duplication. You are clearly passionate and have put in a lot of work, and as a fellow editor I certainly appreciate it but I wouldn't view this as undoing your hard work and more as a learning experience. There are a number of things I would like to point out to you aside from the fact that Star is separate and these programs are not Disney+ original content. 1. You do not have consensus, regardless of when you originally added this information. 2. Wikipedia policy dictates the burden is on you to obtain consensus, as you are the one who wants to add this information. It's not on other editors to obtain consensus to not include it. 3. You are most definitely engaging in an edit war. I think you added this information at least five times in a back and forth with Rusted AutoParts before I removed it again. You started to add it again without consensus and now it's been removed again by another editor. You are violating multiple policies. My last comment is directed at APD. You are a constructive editor who has gone about the process correctly and diplomatically from my perspective. Please don't aid this other editor in volatile practices if they continue to choose to go down this road. Thank you. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 21:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

1. Star is not a separate streaming service, there is nothing to argue here, it is not separate. Star is a part of Disney+, they are Star originals, therefore these are originals to Disney+ for those internationally who will have the Star expansion of Disney+. 2. I started this Talk thing as soon as I made this edit, knowing it was a bigger change, APD responded and gave his feedback and we worked together editing it as we saw right for the past two days. I can't force people to respond to me. I had the consensus of those who replied, and seeing as APD is probably the biggest and most frequent contributor to this page I accepted his approval and help. Then today Rusted came in and completely ignored this to do whatever he wanted. 3. I have not added the information again as it was, instead doing what was suggested here and adding a referral to the Star page alongside a much condensed version of what we had. 4. Thank you @Apd9696: for helping someone trying to do the right thing instead of the "volatile" bully who started all this. Samurai I think you have responded fairly and correctly, until your last sentence where you joined in the bullying practices of the other user. The opposite can be said for the one who started this back and forth war a few hours ago.

”Volatile bully”? “Rusted came in and completely ignored this to do whatever he wanted”? You’re taking all this ridiculously personal. Calling me a “volatile bully” is not civil in any way (besides if anyone here is “volatile” it’s you because you’re the one reverting multiple people undoing your edits). And all of this doesn’t in the slightest change this one major thing: none of the shows you’re adding are Disney+ originals nor are they Star originals despite the branding. Big Sky was made for ABC. Love Victor is Hulu. They are not exclusive nor original programming for Disney+. They are listed on their respective channel’s programming lists, and at the Star Disney page. What do we gain from seeing it here too? All that is needed is a sentence about what Star is and offers, and a hatnote guiding readers to where they can see this information where it’s most relevant. Rusted AutoParts 21:42, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not bullying you. I'm informing you how your behavior and edits are being perceived by the majority of editors on here. I don't believe it's anyone's intentions to bully you or make this personal. This is an editing and content issue and obviously most people disagree with you. Adding any information back, whether in part or full or slightly altered is still considered edit warring. One thing we all have to accept on here is that this is a collaborative effort and no matter how much we may think we are right (even if another editor agrees with us), we may be outvoted and not get consensus and have to abide by the community. My concern for you now is that admin will get involved. I seriously encourage you to leave it alone and let it be. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 21:49, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

To summarize what happened here in the time I was gone (pinging fellow participants here) @Picsovina: @Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: @Rusted AutoParts: @Apd9696:. The edit war was noticed by admin and the status can be tracked at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:MarvelousMusician397 reported by User:The Grand Delusion (Result: ). Now, we can get back on discussing this matter. @Rusted AutoParts and I originally brought up our concern and following Rusted AutoParts' idea to get a general consensus, Picsovina sided with us and Samurai Kung fu Cowboy also thinks that the Star Originals should not be listed on this page. In my first comment on this talk page, I suggested to use a hatnote (thanks Adp9696 for reminding me that what I mean is a hatnote!). We could expand the hatnote in the intro clarifying what Star is (e.g. On February 23, 2020, Disney will launch Star (Disney+) in several countries. As part of Star, Disney will release several ABC, FX, Hulu and other Walt Disney Television shows on Disney+ exclusively in these countries as a Star Original. Star Originals are not listed on this page but on Star (Disney+.) Apd9696 was on the fence but was certainly open to my idea of the hatnote. I also agree with Samurai Kung fu Cowboy on the following quote:

And even when they appear on the Star page, it should be noted who initially produced them.

Perhaps we could use the same table format as is used on List of Netflix exclusive international distribution programming with title, genre, original network, original country and seasons. I don't think we should use the exclusive regions as Disney has stated that these shows will only be available on Star internationally. The original run also seems unncessary for Star as these shows have yet to premiere. I would love to hear how you guys think how to proceed with this page as well as the Star page. Virin1009 (talk) 08:52, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Not sure if I'm allowed to contribute anymore, I'm guessing not based on how the previous message started off, but unlike the Netflix page you referenced, Star programming comes specifically/exclusively from the U.S. and from the several Disney owned networks already explained on the page. To include a separate column for this information in the tables would be redundant and unnecessary. Original network I could maybe see, but original country would be pointless as it is all coming from the U.S.. Furthermore, The Star section has been removed from this page as people wanted, so I ask that you please leave the other page alone, or move this discussion to that page where it now belongs. MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 16:36, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

As this page has started to discuss how to add Star content, it can stay here as long as there's notification that the discussion is here. We also don't want to be too repetitive on talk pages. I basically agree with Virin. It sounds good to me. Marvelous, Wikipedia has to be clear to the reader and the layman. Just because Disney owns something or the majority of, does not mean that's the production company or brand behind something. And Disney+ and Star aren't Disney. We list them respectively as Disney+ or Star originals. Not as Disney originals. Same as ABC or FX. "The Last Dance," is considered an ESPN series, not a Disney series, even though Disney owns ESPN. There are even separate pages for HBO content versus HBO Max and we recently had a similar issue with some Warner Brothers films who owns both of them. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 16:45, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

How is there notification that the discussion is here? And nowhere in my message did I say they were called Disney originals. Also don't understand what you're trying to say with "Disney+ and Star aren't Disney." Really don't understand what most of your response has to do with what I said. What I am trying to explain is that on the Star page currently, it is explained in multiple areas that the "Star Original" programming (which will be labeled as such in the countries which own Star, obviously it will not be in the U.S. where Star will not exist.) come from FX, Hulu, and ABC. I don't think this needs its own column in every programming table, when the information is already clearly in front of the reader and will be clear again if they choose to look into any show in particular. MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 16:59, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

You can put a notification on the Star talk page that there is currently a discussion on here about how to include content. That's one way of putting a notification. Another way would be to add a tag to the page but I think the first way is best personally. Also, can you provide a link to the Star page. I'm having trouble finding it and I want to see exactly how it looks. From what you've said, it sounds like the format might already be what we're talking about. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 17:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Nevermind. I see the link above. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 17:17, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I've added a notification on Star's talk page about this discussion. After looking at it, it is not listed as we are suggesting. They are not Star original programming. They are internationally exclusive to Star. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 17:22, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I've also now added a link to Star at the top of this page. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 17:25, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I've changed the headings on Star from "Original Programming" to "Exclusive International Distribution," uniform with other Wikipedia pages. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 17:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I think that including the original network makes sense to me. One thing I did notice yesterday however was that Disney+ calls Big Sky and Love, Victor "Star Originals". This seems to be an official name as Disney+ used the name on their official Twitter account too. I do see how the Star Originals can be considered "exclusive international distribution" shows as these are airing on Disney+ after previously airing on another network in another country, but they are officially branded as originals. Furthermore, the Star originals are both produced and distributed by Disney in both the US and internationally on Star, so they are technically original shows in this respect. Apd9696 (talk) 19:05, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

It can make it seem though that those shows, being referred to as "Originals", implies that they are being switched from their current channels to Star exclusively. To me it's the case of them being the specific service that hosts the show (ala The Office moving to Peacock from Netflix, only Peacock has the American streaming rights to Office. But we wouldn't call The Office a Peacock Original). Rusted AutoParts 19:30, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I feel that I unfortunately need to bring something up. Instead of respecting me and the other editors or the format of Wikipedia or discussing on here MarvelousMusician has reverted my edits on Star now. I've reverted them back and hopefully this won't happen again. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:03, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Apd9696:I understand the confusion. They are not technically Star originals. We list it the same way on Netflix, Hulu, and so on. Many shows that appear as Netflix originals in the US and even have publications stating such, are listed under international distribution, being that they were originally aired under another company in another country/countries. It's the format Wikipedia uses for all streaming service content pages. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:10, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I get that system and I think it works really well. I just think that with Star being part of Disney+ and Disney+ being part of Disney, as well as all of the original US networks being part of Disney, Star originals are not exactly acquired by Disney+ from an external network - everything's under Disney. But yes, I guess them being under exclusive international distribution makes sense given it is similar to how other streaming services exclusively distribute content that had previously aired on another network in another country. I also vaguely remember something from Investor Day where they said that Star would make local content which will air on Star where it is available, and I think those shows can be classified as "original programming". However, I'd just like to propose that on the Star (Disney+) page, in the "content" section, that the two sub-sections are "library content" and "Star originals", as "Star originals" are what Disney officially calls their original shows that will exclusively premiere on Star. Then, the section "Star originals" can be split into "exclusive distribution" ("international" is unnecessary here as all Star originals are going to all the countries where Star is available) and "original programming" (when Star starts producing and distributing original content of its own that hadn't previously aired on another network in another country). Apd9696 (talk) 19:25, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I think I followed you there and it makes sense. Keep in mind Disney owns more than one streaming network. Hulu definitely needs to be distinguished from Disney+ but it sounds like we're on the same page. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:36, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

The only other thing for future content is that shows that are distributed on Disney+ and Star may be needed to be listed as co-productions. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:41, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts:I believe these shows are listed as Star originals though. So, it's more aligned with a show like The Capture on Peacock, which is listed as a Peacock original in the US and under that banner on their service and even advertised as one, unlike The Office. However, it isn't truly a Peacock original as it aired in the U.K. first under a different company. But we still list it under exclusive international distribution on Wikipedia. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:47, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Samurai Kung fu Cowboy:I have to ask because it's come up a few times now, do you actually understand what Star is? Based off you saying "Disney+ and Star" as two separate things and the fact that you had to go search for the Star page to undo my edits, since you had no participation in it before this, I'm thinking the answer is no.

I'd just like to add that as long as it's made clear that the certain Star originals had premiered in the US beforehand on another network (the column where this information will be displayed is titled "original network"), along with the fact that it's made clear that Star isn't available in the US, then it should clear up any confusion. Apd9696 (talk) 20:02, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: Hulu isn't available outside of the US (except for Japan I believe) and the "original network" column should make indicate Star and Hulu are different. Also in the Star article (I think) it is made clear that Star won't be available in the US and that Hulu and Star are separate. Also, regarding co-productions, I think a section for them is only needed if Star and another network from another country are both producing a series together (hence the name). This is different from "exclusive distribution" as with shows that are exclusively distributed, Star will have only acquired the rights to distribute the series; Star wasn't involved in production, as with Big Sky and Love, Victor. But otherwise I think we're mostly ready to start getting to work and putting something together. Apd9696 (talk) 20:02, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Ok. Sounds good. Just refer to other streaming content pages for reference if needed. I know you edit them all the time already, so it should be easy. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 20:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Came here to agree with both of you @Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: @Apd9696: on this issue. Star is merely the exclusive international distributor for these shows and Star was not involved with production. Star did not order these series, similarly to how The Good Place and The Last Dance aired here in The Netherlands on Netflix but was advertised as a Netflix Original. It was something I wanted to bring up on the Star talk page, but I am very happy to see that we have been able to resolve the matter. I would also like to point out that I am not American since that was assumed. Regarding co-productions, I fully agree with the stance from Apd9696: if Star and another network are producing a series together, then it should be listed as a co-production rather than exclusive international distribution. On a sidenote, I am Dutch, I live in the Netherlands and like others here I am familiar with the exclusive international distribution format used on other streaming pages. The time difference is the reason why I can't participate in the discussions as I often edit in the morning and mostly work in the evening Virin1009 (talk) 10:56, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

@MarvelousMusician397:Clearly I understand Wikipedia streaming service content page format and you don't. That's been the main issue here all along. Also, that no matter how much people try to inform you and even help you, you ignore it and antagonize. You edit war and take a position of superiority. However, if you don't get it at this point it doesn't really matter because everyone else does. Just leave it alone or I'm sure you'll get blocked. Hopefully if you run into an issue like this in the future you've learned something and will handle it differently. Take care and best wishes. Happy editing. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 04:57, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

And just so everyone knows. Musician tried to alter my comments on here by adding question marks to statements. Everyone else might want to check their edits as well. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 05:08, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

No, I didn't. Why would you make up such a thing? And people wonder why I used the word "bully" yesterday. I have never edited anyone comments, nor would I have any reason or intent to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarvelousMusician397 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

He most definitely did. The page history can be viewed by anyone. Just look at his edit before this one above. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 05:22, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Maybe it was a typo but at this point I wasn't putting anything past him. It was in a weird place. I just don't understand how he put it there. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 05:33, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I have edited Star (Disney+) incorporating what we have agreed on in this discussion. Just to summarise I have changed the layout of the section to convey that the shows are both marketed as Star Originals and are exclusively distributed by Star outside of the US in every country where Star is available. I have also added an "original network" column to reflect that the Star Originals had previously premiered on another network beforehand. Apd9696 (talk) 16:02, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I think as it reads now it's still misleading per the concerns @Rusted AutoParts: brought up. Maybe it's just me though. We'll see what others think. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 16:53, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I think the subsection title should be changed from Star Originals to Programming or something under those lines. With Star Originals being bolder in the sentence after it conveys that’s how they’re referred to as on Star and not be misleading in any way. Rusted AutoParts 17:47, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Star Originals is quite vague but Exclusive distribution with the supporting text explaining what a Star Original is not. However, here in Europe, many shows from other networks are branded as a Netflix Original or Amazon Original (The Last Dance, The Good Place, Star Trek Picard are some examples that come to mind). In the case of TGP, there was also a title card that says A Netflix Original Series while it is produced and first aired by NBC. If a series is branded as such internationally, it has nothing to do with the series being moved to or from another network but it is how shows are marketed here. Virin1009 (talk) 18:03, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts: Thanks, that makes sense. Just thinking about the title of the section though, because to me if I didn't have any idea how this works "programming" could refer to any content on Star in general, not specifically those that are/will be marketed as Star originals. But I guess "programming" could work well. @Virin1009: As per this Deadline article it is mentioned that the shows under "exclusive distribution" (eg. Big Sky and Love, Victor) will be branded as Star originals on Disney+, and this is what makes them different from library content. @Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: If you have any other concerns feel free to voice them here too (that goes for everyone else as well). Apd9696 (talk) 18:23, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

@Apd9696:Yes that is exactly what I meant regarding Star Originals. I also agree with the use of Programming in the Star article. Virin1009 (talk) 20:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Doogie Kameāloha, M.D.

Can someone move this into the pre-production part of Upcoming Drama? No matter how I rework the table it always comes out broken. Aside from that, the show had no evidence it had begun filming. I don’t even think it’s started casting. Rusted AutoParts 18:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I just updated it but according to Production List it started filming last month. Apd9696 (talk) 18:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

This Deadline article announcing the series order says that the series "is slated to go into production later this year" (meaning late 2020). But as you said Disney+ hasn't announced any cast members yet and that is quite strange. Apd9696 (talk) 19:08, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Are we sure that was a set shoot date? Recently I've been a little weary of Production List because they would say one date then later on multiple sources would contradict what they said. Example that comes to mind would be Bullet Train. Rusted AutoParts 19:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

In my experiences Production List has been correct, so I cite their pages often when editing and I find them to be trustworthy. I'm not sure what happened with Bullet Train, because I did notice numerous date changes on their website, but I feel that might be due to complications with the pandemic. But Production List's filming dates do seem to match those of Variety Insight (egs. Fresh, This Country, and The Boys S3) I have found. The shooting date listed on Production List does seem to fit what Deadline said about the show filming in late 2020, so I'd say it seems about right. But again with the cast not being announced yet it seems a bit weird. Apd9696 (talk) 20:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Split off exclusive distribution programming

I think now that there is a growing number of programming that is not available everywhere on Disney+, we can maybe think about splitting these off into their separate page. The movies and the TV shows too, both available and upcoming. It would be the same thing as with the Netflix exclusive distribution page and there is also a similar ongoing debate to split of HBO Max exclusive distribution shows from its original page. Any objections, concerns? Picsovina (talk) 11:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

No objections, thanks for starting the discussion. I've created Draft:List of Disney+ exclusive international distribution programming for the new article. Again, it's quite short so it might not be ready to go live immediately, but I'm sure we'll see more new releases and announcements in the near future. Apd9696 (talk) 11:51, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't have any objections either. As exclusive regional content will likely continue to expand on Disney+ especially for Latin America, I think it'll be good to separate them. LFLEncycolpedia (talk) 03:39, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'd say at this point if you like, you can start especially if there's already a draft page set up. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 02:09, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

No objections, however I wonder if it would be a good idea to include exclusive distribution of Star Originals on this new page as well or keep them under the Star (Disney+) page? Mitchdog (talk) 04:44, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Personally I think it's a good idea to incorporate Star, but we came to the consensus that Star Originals would be totally separated from Disney+ Originals in these list articles to avoid duplication. Apd9696 (talk) 09:50, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok, so I think we can move the draft article to the mainspace. We can continue the discussion about Star, if there is no consensus yet. Picsovina (talk) 10:01, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Specials

Just realized that we have Specials on this page, and then again (with a much longer list) on the programming page, shouldnt these all be on one or the other? The Right Stuff one especially considering it's a full length documentary. I can see the argument for leaving the High School Musical ones here, but I don't think so if the main list of Specials is all on another page. MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 06:36, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I feel like they should all be on this page because they are all television specials. I understand that it's different given that Disney+ is a streaming service, but regardless of whether they are related to films or series, they were conceived for the small screen and therefore should be on the television-related page. Apd9696 (talk) 09:59, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Just looked at Disney+ and they identify The Real Right Stuff, Diving with Dolphins, In the Footsteps of Elephant and Penguins: Life on the Edge as feature documentaries, which makes sense given their runtimes. I think if we are to re-arrange them in some way then we should have those on the film page under the documentaries section. Apd9696 (talk) 10:03, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

That makes sense. In that case then the only change to make would be to move The Real Right Stuff to the film page. The other two High School Musicals are good where they are now. MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 17:49, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

No objections. Real Right Stuff can be considered a standalone feature documentary, but just to clarify, the logic of specials on this page is, that if it is related to an original TV show, then it is displayed on the TV page. And one could argue for Real Right Stuff being a supplementary content to the Right Stuff show. Picsovina (talk) 12:26, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Understood. So will we move Real Right Stuff? I can see how it can be considered supplementary to the show, but in my opinion this one makes more sense as a standalone documentary. It's not a making of or behind the scenes, it's just a documentary related to it. MarvelousMusician397 (talk) 18:25, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

I dont mind if you move it. Picsovina (talk) 20:44, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

I think we also had those descriptions under the continuations and the specials sections (based on the Netflix page), but I see that they got removed sometime. Or maybe we forgot to add it to this page, dont remember. Let me add those.Picsovina (talk) 12:31, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

The Right Stuff

It is patently false to say the show ended. Everything detailed in the source provided details cancelation:

• Was in negotiations for a season 2, they fell through
• Its being shopped elsewhere, so they want to continue it.

And from my research, @Picsovina: no other programming does “Ended” unless it genuinely reached its endpoint. Netflix seems to remove all ended shows from the original programming page, channels like Showtime or HBO move them to a “Former programming” section. It’s way too early for a section like that as only a few of their shows have ended or been canceled thus far. So please restore the Canceled status as that’s the wholly true word to use. Rusted AutoParts 12:33, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Apd9696: pinging for input. Rusted AutoParts 14:42, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts:: If this is important to you, feel free to use the term cancelled, I am not against it. But I had to point out that the general term used for cancelled shows on programming pages of streaming services is ended (the title of the page of the cancelled or concluded netflix shows is list of ended netflix original programming). If a cancelled show gets picked up by another network, we usually mark this with an efn in the status column. It can also happen that previously cancelled shows get renewed, then we simply change the status back to renewed. So, yeah, I just had to put this on the table, but in case we want to differentiate between shows that were cancelled or reached their endpoint on this page, I am not against it. It will be experimental. Picsovina (talk) 15:37, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) With regards to Netflix, I remember a discussion about something similar to this. I think the point is that regardless of whether the show came to an abrupt ending or if there was an actual conclusion, we will not see future seasons so the series has ended. Each series has a different approach to ending – some are abruptly cancelled (eg. I Am Not Okay with This), some are cancelled by a network and the writers find a way for the series to come to a conclusion (which I think is the plan for Supergirl), and some decide that a series has come to its natural end, like Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Ultimately, all the series (will have) ended in some form. This, however, is obviously a very different case. I think it's in some ways similar to The Outsider, which was cancelled by HBO but is being shopped by the studio. Over on the HBO page, The Outsider is listed under "Former programming" as it will no longer air on HBO and the series currently has no network where the planned 2nd season will air. Season 2 of The Right Stuff is definitely in development, but whether it will actually be made is uncertain as, even though there are already potential new networks, it is possible that the series ends up nowhere and we will not see a season 2. In my opinion, I think it's best to put it as ended, as it has been cancelled by Disney+ and therefore ended, but add a note that the series is being shopped and season 2 is still in the works. APD (hmu) 15:39, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

I can kinda see the point you're making but to me there's still a very clear distinction of a show ending before it planned to, and a show that ended on its own accord. I feel marking it as canceled is the more appropriate approach, as that's how it is referred to in the source. Rusted AutoParts 16:05, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

The Simpsons shorts

The press release regarding the release of The Force Awakens from Its Nap states, and-I-quote, "The new promotional short is the first of several from 'The Simpsons' that Disney+ will release throughout the year paying tribute to the service’s marquee brands and titles." Doesn't that sound more like a series than just one film? - Jasonbres (talk) 16:10, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Franchise column?

Hey, was just wondering if there was any merit to a franchise column in a number of the tables here? Given that Disney+ makes the franchise a feature of the navigation in their app, would it be useful for users to easily see which Star Wars/Marvel/Pixar etc. series they are producing? HornetMike (talk) 10:27, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Secret Invasion

I feel, with filming closer to starting than most, should be moved up under Willow. I don’t want to mess up the table so if someone could make this edit I would appreciate it. Rusted AutoParts 01:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Secret Invasion Release Year

Secret Invasion is releasing in 2022, it's stated in the mcu television series article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_television_series NathanGamerdog (talk) 19:24, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Critic scores

Is there anything speaking against adding a new column with critic and audience scores from for example the IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes? CanePlayz (Jacob) (talk) 15:00, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

In Development shows put into greenlit sections

I’ve noticed that there’s several titles that have no given greenlight in several of the upcoming program sections. For example, Percy Jackson and Swiss Family Robinson in Drama, Biggest Star in Appleton in Comedy. Could someone please restore them back to the development sections? Rusted AutoParts 20:36, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Marvel and Star Wars

Due to the large number of Disney+ Shows pertaining to either the MCU or Star Wars (both current and upcoming), I think shows from those franchises should have separate sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magnumtropus (talk • contribs) 08:50, 29 August, 2021 (UTC)

If we were to do that, the only shows left would be the Disney-branded ones (plus a few Nat Geo ones). InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:53, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Completely unfeasible and needless. We don't need a bunch of "List of X shows on Disney+". Rusted AutoParts 10:21, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Ended original programming section

I feel like there should be a section dedicated to the ended shows on Disney+. There are so many shows on Disney+ that have been axed in the streaming service's two year lifespan, so it makes sense to have a section dedicated to the ended shows, if not, then a separate article like with Netflix. ZX2006XZ (talk) 00:32, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

There's no reason when a Status column to the side of each table is more than succinct. Just adds a new needless table. I say no. Rusted AutoParts 00:34, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Maybe we won't need a status column for the ended shows. ZX2006XZ (talk) 00:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Just look at List of ended Netflix original programming. ZX2006XZ (talk) 00:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

"Maybe we won't need a status column for the ended shows" Why not, It indicates exactly what your proposed table would should a show conclude, or is presently in renewal limbo. It's adds less length on the page than it would to have a separate table for ended content. Also, Netflix has way way WAY more content than D+ at present time, it makes sense that eventually ended programming got sectioned off. Doesn't make sense for D+ at present moment. Rusted AutoParts 00:45, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Culprits

Can I ask what makes Culprits different from Renegade Nall and Nautilus that makes it unable to be included in the upcoming programming section for Drama? Rusted AutoParts 07:00, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

I would be happy to explain the difference to you. The "Nautilus" you mentioned is a Disney+ Original, while "Culprits" is a Star Original. This was already communicated in this form by Disney last year.

Star Originals will not be released on Disney+ worldwide, only in countries with Star Hub or on Disney+Hotstar. In the US, Star Originals will be released primarily on Hulu, while in Latin America, Star Originals will be released through the standalone streaming service Star+.

Star Originals are listed in the following list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_(Disney%2B)_original_programming#Drama_3

Source: https://newsroom.disney.fr/actualites/nathan-stewart-jarrett-en-tete-daffiche-de-culprits-une-serie-star-original-britannique-63d2-dc71f.html https://newsroom.disney.fr/actualites/disney-commande-nautilus-une-serie-de-science-fiction-et-daventure-inspiree-de-lunivers-de-jules-verne-ca9b-dc71f.html

--Erik-Knecht (talk) 09:30, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Appropriate Sources

This page is not up to standard. Nearly 100 percent of the sources on this page and most Disney+ pages are "Roger Palmer," a Disney enthusiast blogger. It's clear that blogs and bloggers, no matter how much people love them, should not be used as sources over respected trades such as Deadline, The Hollywood Reporter, Variety, Entertainment Weekly, etc, all of which provide the news that Roger then reposts. It would appear Mr. Palmer has obtained some groupies here. There should be reviewing of the polices

1. 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources

1. 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources

DyadVariant (talk) 01:08, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

You are correct, What's On Disney Plus is not a reliable source. I have tagged the article with {{Unreliable sources}}. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:32, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I combed through and replaced sources from What's On Disney Plus with more reliable sources with the same information from industry publications. Hope this addresses the issue. Nisf (talk) 19:59, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, those sources look good. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:06, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm sure he's a great guy, but he's not a journalist. His site regularly posts things based on speculation, incorrect information that was not fact checked, etc. Everything credited to his site in the Disney news sector can be traced to Variety or Deadline first so let's give credit where due. DyadVariant (talk) 21:16, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Changing Seasons column to Episode count

I propose changing the Seasons column to Episode count. Currently the column does not cover minis, which dont have seasons, so Episode count would be a better fit for those too. Picsovina (talk) 13:47, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Disagree - I'd argue that the number of seasons a show has tells one more about the show than the number of episodes, as story arcs and show longevity are reflected in seasons. 1 season of 10 episodes means something different than 2 seasons of 5 episodes each. I'd suggest a compromise of sorting miniseries by "1XX" instead of "0XX" for sorting issues. Nisf (talk) 13:57, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Anthology Genre?

I was looking at List of HBO original programming and I noticed they have a separate anthology section and was wondering if we could do that here too? As far as I know, HBO is the only article to have a separate section for anthology, but since Disney+ has six anthology shows (Just Beyond, What If...?, Star Wars Visions, Tales of the Jedi, Zootopia+, Kizazi Moto: Generation Fire) out or coming soon, I feel like we could do that. If not then that's good with me, just a suggestion I thought of. Skyshot16 (talk) 00:05, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Global originals vs regional originals

We engaged into an undo conversation with Erik-Knecht about global and regional originals division. It came up that some programs are not available in some areas due to censorship reasons. I would still count such cases global originals, because it is beyond Disney to have these programs available there. However there are some programs which I moved to regional originals, because they are actually not available worldwide (I checked in Slovakia and Hungary, but I imagine there would be more). I think these are legit regional originals as there is no censorship in these countries, they are unavailable because Disney has not made them available yet. We could still move them back to global originals once they become available. Let me know your thoughts. Seprentyu (talk) 18:39, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

There are two points I would like to make.

1. this list currently includes all regions of the world. Because there are no separate lists for specific regions. For example, Disney+ Hotstar is also included because the Disney+ Hotstar list references this list in relation to Disney+ Originals.

Also, in theory, the catalog would have to be reviewed in every single country in the world where Disney+, Disney+ Hotstar, or Disney+ Star is available, but few of us have the means to do that For this reason, it is not possible to create an accurate list of regional Originals. And therefore it can be incomplete and sometimes arbitrary.

2. I would like to avoid the term "Selected Territories" in the Regional Originals section and instead write in which regions/countries the title is not available. For example, All markets except Central Europe.

Firstly, so that it is more transparent and editors can also check if the title has since been released on Disney+ in the excluded countries, and secondly, I find the term "Selected Territories" to be very non-specific for titles that are available in most and most countries in the world. Erik-Knecht (talk) 18:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree with both of your points, but I dont see them as showstoppers. To the first point, it probably never will be 100% accurate, but I guess thats the beauty of wikipedia, everyone can add their contribution to it to the best of their knowledge. I imagine editors from different countries could always double-check and confirm the availability of a show in a certain region if they saw something incorrect. I most certainly can cover Central Europe as this is where I am situated. To the second point I have no objection. I will make the amends to say All markets except Central Europe instead of Selected territories. Seprentyu (talk) 08:06, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

If they're available in all regions EXCEPT one, could we designate them as Global Originals and include an endnote? Then if other editors note that they're not available in multiple regions, we could move them to Regional Originals. I always felt that Regional Originals was more appropriate for series that were only available in one or two regions, as opposed to ones that are available globally EXCEPT one region. Nisf (talk) 13:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

We could, its a valid suggestion looking at regional originals from the other way around. However this would open a can of worms: you would need to define the word "region" and "except one". Is it NAM, LATAM, EMEA, ASPAC or is it sub-regions of these or is it mere countries? Does US or Japan pass as a region because they are big but Slovakia and Hungary alone no, because they are small countries? How do we define the threshold for regions when a global original is not global anymore? This would take a lot of unnecessary cerebral fitness. Seprentyu (talk) 13:53, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

It's not based on size, but on how Disney+ rolls out content - we've already defined "Central Europe" under the assumption that Central Europe is a market that has homogeneous programming. (Of course, I am relying on the Central European subject matter expert to confirm this is true.) Disney seems to define its own regions - while we don't have access to Disney's internal marketing, a good guide might be to look out how they've split out their social media accounts, press release sites, and marketing. For example, Disney+ markets operate separately in the US vs Canada (I assume due to the massive size of the US market), but operates as a whole in Latin America. To quote you above: "To the first point, it probably never will be 100% accurate, but I guess thats the beauty of wikipedia, everyone can add their contribution to it to the best of their knowledge." Nisf (talk) 14:20, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I am not opposed. Central Europe is however a geographical region, Disney probably does not treat it as a whole as it includes German-speaking countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland), which I am sure are handled separately, but its quite likely that the rest have the same programming (Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Czechia, Slovenia). Let me move then regional programs back to global programming, we can figure out the rest later. Seprentyu (talk) 15:19, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Can someone spell out the acronym "ASPAC"?

This isn't a well-known acronym and isn't defined anywhere else in the article. I don't know what it stands for. Nisf (talk) 12:03, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

ASPAC is pretty much the same as APAC: Asia-Pacific. Seprentyu (talk) 17:35, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Should lists of upcoming programs be allowed?

There is a long running discussion on if the list of upcoming programs on this page falls under the no EPGs rule. This is following an update to this page in which the list of upcoming programs was removed citing this rule

It would be good to get additional input: Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Proposal for a text change relating to WP:NOTTVGUIDE JordanP7893 (talk) 15:49, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Agatha: Coven of Chaos Wrapped

Can we please change the status from filming to wrapped? https://www.kftv.com/news/2023/05/30/marvels-agatha-coven-of-chaos-series-wraps-filming-in-atlanta-for-disney

Only Wonder Man should still be listed (paused for WGA Strike).

Goosebumps supposedly wrapped March, but I understand it must remain as "filming" until a source. For now, I just have the "not enough" mention that it was scheduled to wrap then. http://hollywoodnorthbuzz.com/2022/10/disneys-goosebumps-series-with-justin-long-starts-filming-in-vancouver%EF%BF%BC.html

Change Willow's status to ended

We shouldn't have to wait for a year to confirm Willow is over as the series will be removed next week. Despite what one of the producers says in March 2023; the series is not coming back. 173.187.89.14 (talk) 15:38, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't have any ideological objections to removing the show – the only thing I'm concerned about is that assuming the show has ended by its removal from the service runs the risk of WP:OR. The article states that the shows have been removed, without any comment from Disney on whether they will be added back. Without an explicit statement from Disney saying the show is canceled or has been permanently removed from the Disney+ service, I'm concerned that we are making assumptions not stated in the article.

The debate alluded to earlier is from the initial cancellation announcement, in which the cancellation originally reported in the trades contradicted statements later made by the producers of the series. The comment was put into place to prevent edit warring. Nisf (talk) 16:53, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Producers of the series, unfortunately do not have final say; the distributor does. (In this specific case, either the producer was lied to, or the producer lied to fans to calm things down). The list, which includes Willow, is in articles by all of the trades, and it's known that the trades are unofficial press for the studios. They rarely post anything without the permission of the studios. Angylaloha (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

"It's known that the trades are unofficial press for the studios." Again, there's a lot of WP:SYNTH going on here. None of the articles say that the series has been canceled, only that it will be removed from the service with no statement from Disney. Without a definitive statement from a WP:RELIABLE source (either trades confirming the cancellation or a statement from Disney), I'm reluctant to support changing the status outside of our usual rules. I would like to see some of the regular page editors actually contribute to this discussion though – I don't want to be the only one contributing to this conversation. Nisf (talk) 18:18, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, it looks like the list initially published by Deadline was not the final list of films and series to be pulled – see https://deadline.com/2023/05/disney-backlash-removal-howard-documentary-little-mermaid-lgbtq-1235373329/. Nisf (talk) 18:29, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I suppose this is on hold then until next week, to observe if it's pulled or not. If it's pulled, it's highly unlikely the series will be renewed. That logically does not make any sense. As for an official statement; studios/distributors rarely do that about cancellations (they allow articles from the trades to relay that info between the lines). Angylaloha (talk) 19:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Update - Disney reversed their decision about removing the Howard documentary due to backlash, and the same MAY happen with Willow. Therefore, for now, best to keep Willow as Pending, especially if it stays. However, if it's removed next week; I highly doubt a series that is removed will be renewed; therefore if that applies, then the status should be Ended. Angylaloha (talk) 20:00, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Confused that the status remains as Pending. Willow is on the list, revealed by the trades as being removed. The show is not continuing, if it will be removed from Disney+. There is mention that there is debate if it will be removed or not. What is the source of this debate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angylaloha (talk • contribs) 2023-05-19T16:43:58 (UTC)

The producers have stated the show wasn’t cancelled and entered a hiatus. Being pulled from the service doesn’t negate that given there has been demonstrated indication from the people involved there is a plan to potentially restart the series. Everything else is just playing fast and loose with OR. Being removed from the service doesn’t instantly negate the producers comments. Rusted AutoParts 20:03, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Problem with that is that producers have no say or power with that in the end. It's the distributors. So, a producer may claim that a series is renewed, but that means nothing in the big picture. Moreover, if a series is removed, that is a strong indication it will not be renewed. If a distributor/streamer wants a series to be renewed, they will keep it there. Anyway, we will know more next week. Maybe with backlash, in regards to Willow, they will change their mind (like they did with the Howard documentary film). Angylaloha (talk) 20:22, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

That’s still OR. We have the producer stating that there was no cancellation of the series. The cast was released from their contracts as the show may or may not resume production in the next year. That is what we know. Disney has not come out and disputed this, saying “no we are definitely cancelling the show”. Rusted AutoParts 20:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Do studios confirm cancellations though? Per my recollection, it's always via the trades (and the trades then have the 'XYZ could not be reached for comment,' yet between the lines, it's a confirmation for all intents and purposes.

They disputed the removal of Howard because of backlash - thus far, they're silent about Willow. Angylaloha (talk) 20:59, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

If a show is reported as cancelled than someone on said show says “no that’s not true” when in fact it is true in the studios eyes, would they not respond to a request for comment to dispute it? Either way we can’t make those assumptions. It was reported canceled but then clarified by a primary producer it was merely on hiatus for the time being until officially abandoned or a season 2 is given the go ahead. Hence that year stipulation in the hidden note. A year goes by and nothing comes about of it, it’s more than fair to mark it Ended. Rusted AutoParts 21:02, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Request reconsideration if the show is removed from Disney+ next week. Not certain how a show's removal equals renewal.

As for Disney not disputing Kasdan - either he released that to quiet down the backlash, or they went along with it because of the backlash. Now, because of pressures from Wall Street to cut costs with streamers, they just don't care anymore.

One of the writers for the series is distressed about the potential removal - I doubt he'd be that distressed, if there was hope for renewal.

https://collider.com/willow-removal-disney-plus-john-bickerstaff-comments/ Angylaloha (talk) 21:13, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Please read WP:OR. That’s all I have to say. Should it be removed next week we’ll just mimic how List of HBO Max original programming marks their removed shows but maintain the Pending based on what Kasdan has said. Rusted AutoParts 21:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Reads like a plan. Thank you. (and I greatly appreciate this conversation as well). May surprise, yet I am a huge fan of the show; however, I just feel like the writing is on the wall (my outlook in life is - rip off the bandaid). Yet, I understand WP:NOR needs to be respected, as well. Grateful for your time! Angylaloha (talk) 21:34, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Small tweet thread by Jon Kasdan, the producer/showrunner, acknowledging that this is the end for the series. (He does mention hope it will live on somewhere else, maybe even receive a renewal from that platform whomever it may be). Link below is the first tweet of the mini-thread.

https://twitter.com/JonKasdan/status/1660492524782505984 Angylaloha (talk) 05:28, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

That's still more about it's pending removal. It's still really needing something more firm that has him or Disney stating there will not be a season. Particularly more from Kasdan reneging on the hiatus statement. Rusted AutoParts 05:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

In his mind, that might be the reversal of the hiatus statement.

On the other hand, understandable you wish to wait for the year (from March 17, 2023), yet if it's moved to Netflix, as an example, perhaps consider marking it as Ended for Disney+, and add it as a (in this example) Netflix entry as Pending? Angylaloha (talk) 06:18, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

His tweet reply indicates that not only will it be removed, that it has ended on Disney+

Tweet he replied to "As a tax write-off, you do realize they can’t ever show it again or release it, right? And there is no physical media. This isn’t just to create hype and demand. Once the show is gone, it’ll stay gone, NEVER to be seen again."

https://twitter.com/blackmorghann/status/1660560281800409088?s=20

And then his reply "that is not my understanding or how it's been explained to me from anyone involved on any side, but i am not a tax lawyer, so I don't know..."

https://twitter.com/JonKasdan/status/1660561838747316225?s=20 Angylaloha (talk) 17:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

If the show was financially written off; then change it to ended. 75.117.199.175 (talk) 23:42, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

The show already aired so it's not a financial write-off. Even then, Kasdan's remarks about hiatus remain until he states it's fully done. Rusted AutoParts 22:18, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sundevilemily: Please read this discussion thread. Rusted AutoParts 22:17, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

The series is still on Disney+. 162.40.175.14 (talk) 16:12, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Maybe it was saved, yet I have seen some musings that the removal might occur over the weekend (tomorrow or Sunday) because it's a holiday weekend. (If it occurred today, in the morning, there is a chance it would have reached a news trending status, and Disney might want to avoid that). If still there Monday, or Tuesday, maybe the backlash saved it? Angylaloha (talk) 16:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I checked just recently on Disney+ and I couldn't find the show, it just showed the movie from the 80s on the Streaming Service. Sundevilemily (talk) 07:23, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

It was on my Watchlist because it was one of my favorite series (so my debate/mention to change it to Ended is not easy), and indeed, it's no longer there. Personally, I don't see how a series can be Pending on a streamer, when they removed it, and are willing to take an impairment charge for it (i.e. costs less to pay that, then keep it, and many others) - Perhaps it might cause a lot of Securities and Exchange Commission, if they do bring it back.??

https://whatsondisneyplus.com/disney-to-remove-dozens-of-originals-including-willow-big-shot-more/

Maybe it might live on via another location, yet for Disney+, I think it has Ended, yet I understand if WP:NOR is an issue. Angylaloha (talk) 07:51, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Can we please change it to ended. 162.40.175.14 (talk) 11:58, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Jon Kasdan's (the showrunner) recent tweet does use past tense 'traveled,' which does give an indication it has Ended because it was removed from Disney+

"To all the #Willow fans, friends, family, reavers, wraiths and trolls who traveled with us from Tir Asleen to the Immemorial City... we love you guys."

https://twitter.com/JonKasdan/status/1662378362776715265?s=20 Angylaloha (talk) 15:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Can we please stop with reading into tweets. Like I said much earlier in the discussion we have it marked as unavailable. We have hidden note specifying that due to Kasdan stating it’s cancellation wasn’t a cancellation we’ll wait for a year to see if anything comes of that, or if he more explicitly says “yeah there will not be a second season of Willow”. Rusted AutoParts 17:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

What you always point to as his words, as a reason for not changing its status to Ended, originated from a tweet thread though. Therefore, a tweet is a valid source. I'm only pointing out that he used past tense, yet very well - in regards to waiting a year (January 11, 2024 correct? Because the last episode of the season aired January 11, 2023). Angylaloha (talk) 17:25, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

His tweet about the hiatus was explicit about saying it was a hiatus, not a cancellation. This tweet is highlighting the show was indeed removed from the service, but does not at all state "The show is definitively never coming back for the season 2 I mentioned in initial tweet". Please, please stop inferring meaning from tweets that aren't explicit. Once that tweet exists, put it here and that'll be that. Rusted AutoParts 19:42, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree with RAP, we don't have any sources explicitly stating the show is canceled that give any indication of where their information came from. We do have people high up in the show stating it is not canceled. All I see above is people trying to read the tea leaves... —Locke Cole • t • c 16:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

It apparently doesn't matter at this point, but I quadruple what others have said which is that... Jon saying it was on "hiatus" is not at all a reason to put "Pending." Bro was literally using PR speak to calm fans and provide hope... and that was BEFORE the show was removed. Today, Disney took a SEC filing out to mention the impairment . And Hollywood insider Matt Belloni explained what this means, they cannot re-add the series until the impairment period (the time it was previously licensed that they have taken a write down for) is over. That will be multiple years, during which time it will be licensed to another service (just wait). Saying this show is pending is goofy, the trades already reported it as canceled.

In the past 4 years I've been active, I was told many times "cast or crew" talk on social media about cancellation doesn't count and it must be said in the trades. This is exhausting, you guys are not even consistent. That's like saying all shows that are canceled are really just "pending" until someday when they revive or reboot them. Giving the fans false hope is not cool, they just use this as their "proof" the show will return... Kasdan was being gentle. 72.135.55.191 (talk) 01:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I subscribe to Puck, so will add the quote from Belloni which is referenced, and the link (note, there is a paywall, yet when an email is provided, they allow a one-time preview, or one can do a 14 day trial). If interested in show business though, I recommend a subscription.

"The downside is that once you take the impairment charge, you can’t put that asset back on Disney+ again. It’s gone, at least for the full impairment period.

But it’s not necessarily a total loss. When you impair an asset, like a TV show, you then look at what value you might be able to gain from other sources: Electronic sell-through platforms (like purchases on Amazon or Apple TV), a FAST channel (PlutoTV, Tubi), maybe Netflix or Amazon bites, etcetera. If you do find a buyer, you subtract what you’ve earned there from the write-off, and the content lives on somewhere. If not, it disappears."

https://puck.news/disney-and-the-great-streaming-purge/

Therefore, with Disney+, the status for Willow is Ended. Best-case scenario - it will end up somewhere else. Worst-case scenario - it will not. With both, it remains removed from Disney+.

Matt Belloni is the former editor of The Hollywood Reporter (a trade), and is highly respected and connected. Angylaloha (talk) 01:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I recommend you join the discussion at Talk:Willow (TV series), as most of the "pending" vs. "cancellation" discussion is happening there. Nisf (talk) 12:22, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Willow (TV series)

There is currently an ongoing edit war at Willow (TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) about this exact same issue... —Locke Cole • t • c 16:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

And FWIW, there is now a straw poll to gauge consensus on the matter here: Talk:Willow (TV series)#Straw poll —Locke Cole • t • c 03:20, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

And the canceleds have spoken. 162.40.175.14 (talk) 12:46, 31 May 2023 (UTC)