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Talk:List of English words of Japanese origin/Archive 1

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Latest comment: 17 years ago by Endroit in topic Re-add hentai?
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Old discussions

Latest comment: 18 years ago6 comments2 people in discussion

That's finished copying and pasting and copyediting the one-liners from other articles. Can someone fluent in Japanese check this article, please? -- Anon.

The majority of words found here are simply romanization of japanese words that have no common usage in English. Need revision?

  • YEAH i agree with above comment, although a lot of these are in common use, someone needs to edit out the words that most people wouldnt know unless they studyed japan for many years.

This page reads more like a list of words that someone learned through their interest in Japan. Most words would be unknown to most English speakers. I would be happy to edit some of unknown words out, but I think it needs more discussion. --Noexit

---

It may not be necessary to delete words from the list as it currently exists. Instead, the list could be reorganized with words placed into different sublists by assimilation. I don't think the dictionary test ("If the word is an entry in the dictionary, then it's an English word") is necessarily in line with reality, as it may give too much validity to anachronisms (eg, rickshaw). Instead, two simple tests are "Would (non-Japanophile) my parents know what I'm talking about?" and "Would the Walmart employee in Tennessee know what I'm asking for?"

  • Assimilated: especially if the word has an entrenched meaning or usage different from the original Japanese or if its spelling is anglicized.
    • haiku
    • karaoke
    • origami
    • dōjō (macrons go off, of course)
    • jūdō
    • karate
    • honcho (commonly "head honcho" from hanchō)
    • samurai
    • futon (meaning is mutated)
    • edamame
    • shiitake ("shiitake mushroom" is redundant with take meaning mushroom)
    • soy
    • sushi
    • tempura
    • teriyaki
    • tōfu
    • tycoon
    • Zen
    • ginkgo (not recognizably Japanese)
    • go
    • koi (commonly "koi fish" but redundant)
    • kudzu (from kuzu)
    • sayonara
    • tsunami
    • yakuza
  • Italicized loanword: usable as a standalone word in a general context sentence but may require explanation.
    • anime, bonsai, kabuki, manga, nō (noh), taiko, aikidō, banzai, bushidō, sumō, kamikaze, ninja, hiragana, katakana, kanji, rōmaji, kimono, happi (avoid "happi coat"), bentō (commonly "bento box," but that literally refers to the container and not the content or the whole), gyoza, miso, nori, ramen, sake, sashimi, shabu shabu, soba, sukiyaki, udon, wasabi, mikado, shogun, geisha, rickshaw, sensei, Shinkansen (Bullet Train may have more currency in English)
  • Subculture jargon: may have currency in specific circles.
    • ikebana, otaku, seiyū, sumi-e (sumie), ukiyo-e, umami, panko
  • Still foreign: most everything else

--Outis 21:37, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

A good attempt, but (I think) highly subjective; for instance, I'd place edamame, go, and yakuza in the italicized column, and instate sumo, kamikaze, ninja, and rickshaw into the assimilated column (along with hibachi and shiatsu, which I just added). Subculture-specific terms (say, seiyuu and otaku) should probably not be here, but ikebana passes your "would my parents know what I'm talking about" test. On the whole, for the sake of having a bright-line criterion, it would probably be just as well to leave in the words that appear in, say, Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary 11th Edition or New International 3rd Edition, and excise the others as non-English. On a side note, I've never heard "skosh" used to mean a small amount of something, but I wish I had. What a terrific loanage. --SatyrEyes 02:09, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

skosh (or skosh bit): Very common in the Vietnam era and probably back to WWII. Levi's even used it in one of their ads. Shoaler 29 June 2005 15:01 (UTC)


I think subjective sub-lists by degree of assimilation (doesn't have to be mine) would still be valid and better than the current monolithic list. Subjective doesn't necessarily mean POV, after all. I think one grating indication that a Japanese word isn't fully anglicized shows up in usage when a Japanese noun is followed by an English noun with the same meaing, eg, edamame beans, sumo wrestling, shiatsu massage. I think I used to see ninja assassin, but ninja seems to be avaialbe for standalone use meaning "stealth" these days. If objective is imperative, I suppose the dictionary test is convenient and available.--Outis 13:46, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)


TOFU seems to be well-known word in English. Yes, it is. But its origin is NOT Japanese. Japanese pronounce same as Chinese do. This word is widely used in south east Asia, (including the Holland, Indonesia used to be its colony.) Please refer Oxford dictionary. AIEA 22:12, 17 July 2005 (UTC)


If anybody want to add edamame on this list, why not "Nappa"? Nappa is found in most of supermarkets in US. By the way, it is genetic term for "leaf vagetable" in Japan. AIEA 22:12, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Gingko (AKA ginkgo) is pronounced as "ichou" in Japanese. It is Chinese pronouncation. Its seed, (edible, delicious) spells same "銀杏" but reads "gin nan".AIEA 22:28, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I removed two of Chinese origin (Tofu and Gingko) ones. Also I added "Pokemon", "Pikachu" and "Tamagocchi"AIEA 19:56, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I think OED gives "tofu" as both Japanese and Chinese in origin (that is, the origin of the English word is both, even though the origin of the Japanese word is Chinese) but I don't have it at hand to check. As for the three names, I don't think we need names in the list. If we did, we should add Camry, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, and a whole lot more. Also, since Pokemon is Japanese derived from English, we should add Walkman, Panasonic, Sony, Pentax etc. But again, my opinion is that we should not add these proper nouns to the list. Fg2 20:59, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your opinion.

1. Origin of Tofu also depends on definition of "English". Somebody referred "Walmart employee in Tenesee" as an English speaker, but there are many other in Europe (including but not limited to England), Asia, Oceania, Africa and many other lands. We also need to follow the history.

2. The other three (pokemon, tamogocchi, pikachu). I added them, coz they flooded all over ther world. I was expecting some kind of opinion like yours. We need to define what is included and what is not.

  1. Karaoke is also English derived. (Empty orchestra) -oke is from orchestra.
  2. Honda, Toyota are family names of the founder.
  3. Nissan is a short form of "Japan Industry" in Japanese.
  4. Camry, Sony, Walkman, Panasonic and Pentaxare newly invented words.
  5. Subaru is Japanese name of group of stars found in the Pleiades. (then car company name comes.)

Should "trademakes" be included? AIEA 15:44, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

As one who speaks a fair amount of Japanese but has absolutely no interest in manga or anime I think 90% of what is listed here can be cut. Too specific and irrelevant. Skosh may be a loan word used in Vietnam, but this is about ENGLISH words of Japanese origin.

I'm the one who added "skosh." It is indeed used in English by people who have no connection to Vietnam. The reader who referred to Vietnam talked about that era, not that country. Fg2 20:58, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but...

Latest comment: 19 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I think bukkake should be on this list, especially given that is actually an relatively innocent word in Japanese that now has exclusively pornographic usage in English. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 13:44, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Extremely dubious entries

Latest comment: 18 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

A lot of entries in the list are extremely dubious. For example "roshiaji" for the Cyrillic alphabet. What is the source used here? --DannyWilde 12:23, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Dubious entries removed pending verification

For each of the following, are they really used in English in any sense other than discussing the Japanese concept? Are they widely known words? Please verify this before adding them back to the article.

Gendai Budo
現代 武道, "Modern martial arts"; those which were established after the 1868 Meiji Restoration
wakizashi
脇差, a traditional Japanese sword, similar to but shorter than a katana, together with which it was often worn
yojimbo
用心棒, a bodyguard, security person or sometimes assassin
romaji
ローマ字, the Roman alphabet; the writing of the Japanese language in Roman characters
kana
仮名, a general term for hiragana and katakana
furigana
ふりがな, kana printed next to a kanji or other character to indicate its pronunciation
hebon-shiki
ヘボン式, Hepburn romanization
kunrei-shiki
(monbusho) romanization, 訓令式, literally "Cabinet-ordered system", a system for transcribing the Japanese language into the Roman alphabet
kunyomi
訓読み, the reading of a word that originates from Japanese prior to the introduction of Kanji characters (and their Chinese readings) from China
nippon-shiki
romanization, 日本式, a romanization system that conforms strictly to the kana writing system and is easier for Japanese speakers to use
onyomi
音読み, the Japanese approximation of the original Chinese pronunciation of a Kanji character
rosiaji
(Cyrillization of Japanese), ロシア字 (kiriru moji, キリル文字)
gaku-ran
学ラン, Japanese school uniform for boys
serafuku
セーラー服, Japanese school uniform for girls
kaki
柿, persimmon
ninjin
人参, Carrot
shoyu
Japanese soy sauce
tabemono
食べ物, a term for Japanese food in general
Tennō
天皇, the Emperor of Japan
Sessho
摂政, a title given to a regent who is named to assist an emperor when the emperor is still a child, before the coming of age, or female
hanko
判子 or ハンコ (or inkan : 印鑑), a name seal customarily used in Japan instead of signatures
ichiban
一番, "number one"; the first or the best
Kampaku
関白, the title of a regent who assists an adult emperor
Taikō
太閤, a title given to a retired Sessho and Kampaku regent in Japan
nijubashi
二重橋, bridge to the Japanese Imperial palace
gisu
unagi
鰻 or 鰍, eel

Responses

I have restored the entries wakizashi, romaji, kana, kaki, shoyu, and Tenno after verifying that they are listed in the Oxford American Dictionary. Nohat 07:19, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Japanese loanwords in Hawaii

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Check this out... Japanese loanwords in Hawaii.

Some of these are really funny. These are words loaned from Japanese into Hawaiian Pidgin English (NOT into English). I suggest that you create a link there, from the "See also" section.--Endroit 11:41, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Criteria

Latest comment: 18 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Most of the words in this article noone would identify as an ENGLISH word. I think we should define a criteria for a loan word considered to be an english one. What I suggest is that it must be listed in an English dictionary or have a common usage that follow english pronunciation and/or spelling. 23:36, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Which words would you remove? Or if it's easier, which would you keep? Fg2 01:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
The 3-part test I proposed a while back on Talk:Lists of English words of foreign origin is as follows:
  1. Does the word occur in English texts with any regularity?
  2. Is it listed in any major English dictionaries?
  3. Is the word used by people who don't speak the foreign language?
If a word can be robustly shown to meet all three of these criteria, then I think it's fair to say that the word is a fully naturalized English word, and eligible to be included on the List of English words of Xxx origin pages. I gave a rather long-winded explanation of why certain other proposed criteria are inadequate on Talk:Lists of English words of foreign origin. Anyone considering proposing such a set of criteria for decided what words should go on a page like this should read it. Nohat 02:26, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
The word "shinkansen" gets half a million hits on Google with search restricted to English-language pages; you'll find it in OED. I don't know how to test the third criterion; do you have any suggestions? I'd advocate putting "shinkansen" back in the list. Fg2 03:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Opnion please

Latest comment: 18 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

How does everybody think "Happy coat"? Happy is an English word. It sounds very similar to whatever "happy coat" means, (phonetic translation). AIEA 21:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

It should be "happi coat." The Japanese is happi (法被). It's a red link at ja:衣類. Speakers of English associate it with the English word "happy," which makes it easy to remember, but the "happi" is of Japanese origin. And it usually has "coat" in English. It's in Oxford English Dictionary with both spellings ("happi" and "happy"). Fg2 00:47, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

"Ginkgo" comes from Japanese

Latest comment: 18 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Both OED and M-W state that the word "ginkgo" comes from the Japanese work ginkyo. The word ginkyō is not in Iwanami's 「国語辞典（第三版）」 so perhaps it's obsolete. I did locate it in Shōgakukan's 「新選漢和辞典（新版）」 on page 1079 with the kanji 銀杏 and the reading ぎんきょう. The definition is 「いちょうの実」. So according to these various sources, "ginkgo" does come from Japanese, even if not the present-day vocabulary. I hope this will help people locate the words in bigger, more authoritative dictionaries. Fg2 20:41, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

COD says Chinese origin, Wikipedia says old Japanese origin. I do not find "ぎんきょう" in any 国語辞典. http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/name.htm says an interesting story. If this is correct, origin of ginkgo is somebody's mistake. "ぎんなん" is commonly used. So far, I cannot locate any evidence that "Ginkyo" was used at some time in the history. AIEA 17:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I believe you have to look in a Kokugo Jiten (国語辞典) from Shogakukan.
I just checked my own Microsoft/Shogakukan Bookshelf Basic Version 2.0, a 1998 Japanese CD dictionary. This dictionary DOES have an entry "ぎん‐きょう【銀杏】", which simply redirects you to "ぎん‐なん【銀杏】". This CD version Japanese dictionary is based in turn on: Kokugo Dai Jiten Dictionary, Shinsou-ban (Revised edition), (C)Shogakukan 1988/国語大辞典（新装版）(C)小学館 1988. I believe that would be I S B N 4095010029.--Endroit 18:44, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
If you carefully examine AIEA's cite, http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/name.htm, you will see the image from a page in the 1668 pictorial dictionary "Kinmôzui", WITH THE FURIGANA ぎんきやう. (The mistake by Engelbert Kaempfer was that he wrote down ginkyo in his notes, but published it as ginkgo later.) So AIEA's cite in fact shows that the word ginkgo was coined by Engelbert Kaempfer based on the Japanese word ginkyo (銀杏).--Endroit 20:10, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Is "arigatou" English?

Latest comment: 18 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

The latest addition to the article is "arigatou." This word is of Japanese origin, but is it English? Fg2 00:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The only common English usage I can think of is in the song Mr. Roboto, by Styx....
"DOMO ARIGATO, MR. ROBOTO.... DOMO.... DOMO....".
You have to lose the letter "u" at the end (and maybe add "domo" in the beginning).--Endroit 01:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Hmmmm... That seems like a good example --- thanks --- but it would be slim grounds for a claim that it's an English word. More examples, anyone? Fg2 01:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Not only is Arigato not an English word, but more than 1/2 of the things here are not English either. And of the rest, 1/2 are Japanese words of Chinese origin. This list needs to be scrutinised in depth to avoid cluttering and generalisation. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 02:33, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
In defense of 85.226.122.205, he seems to have made some other edits concerning manga. Perhaps arigato is used in a manga or anime such as Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi and perhaps a few others. I'll change it to arigato for now, but feel free to delete it, since I don't believe it's English either.--Endroit 17:10, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm purging this list of obscure and non-assimilated words

Latest comment: 18 years ago16 comments5 people in discussion
baren
馬連、馬楝, a tool used in wood printing
bokeh
(from ぼけ, boke), subjective aesthetic quality of out-of-focus areas of an image projected by a camera lens
choka
長歌, "long poem"; a genre of Japanese poetry (linguistics)|mora]]e (not syllables as commonly thought) each; see also tanka below
ikebana
生花, flower arrangement
kabuki
歌舞伎, a traditional form of Japanese theatre
netsuke
根付, a toggle use to tie the sash of a kimono also to attach small items such as inro and kinchaku: sometimes beautifully carved.
noh
能, a major form of classical Japanese musical drama
oekaki
お絵描き, Japanese for "scribble" or "doodle". On the Internet, an Oekaki is a message board system that revolves around computer art created by a local art program.
renga
連歌, "renged poetry"; a form of Japanese collaborative poetry
seiyu
声優, a voice actor/actress
senryu
川柳, a form of short poetry similar to haiku
sumi-e
墨絵, Japanese black ink painting
taiko
太鼓, a big drum
tanka
短歌, "short poetry"; an older form of Japanese poetry than haiku, of the form 5-7-5-7-7 morae (not syllables; see also haiku above)
ukiyo-e
浮世絵, a type of woodblock print art or painting
utamakura
歌枕, a rhetorical technique in Waka
waka
和歌, a genre of Japanese poetry, often refers to tanka
yaoi
The term is an acronym derived from the Japanese phrase 「ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし」 (yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi), meaning "no climax, no punch line, no meaning." Also is a term meaning "a male/male relationship", usually with a higher maturity rating than the more-fluffy "shounen-ai"
aikijutsu
合気術 (aikijujutsu, 合気柔術), the precursor to aikido
ashigaru
足軽, foot-soldiers of medieval Japan
budo
武道, Japanese martial arts (lit. "martial arts")
bushi
武士, another name for samurai, lit. "martial practitioner", more commonly "warrior" or "pugilist"
Iaido
居合道, a type of swordfighting that emphasizes "quick-draw" techniques in which a sword strikes as it leaves the sheath
Kendo
剣道, the martial art of Japanese swordsmanship, lit. "sword-way"
Kyudo
弓道, the Japanese art of archery, lit. "bow way"
jujutsu
柔術, a variety of close combat fighting systems (see article), lit. "soft skill"
kata
型, detailed patterns of defense-and-attack movements used by many traditional martial arts
kenjutsu
剣術, teaching of efficient use of the Japanese sword in combat
KiAi
気合, yells used by martial arts students to focus energy when executing a technique
koryu
古流, schools of martial arts that predate the Meiji restoration, lit. "old-school"
randori
乱取り, in martial arts, free-style practice or sparring, often specifically multiple-attacker freestyle, lit. "messy striking"
sai
a dagger, with two long, unsharpened projections attached to the handle
shinobi
忍び, a form of Japanese martial arts (see also ninja above)
yumi
弓, a Japanese longbow used in the practice of Kyudo (see above)
zanbato
斬馬刀, an especially large type of sword consisting of a large blade on a pole, lit. "horse-slaying sword"
hiragana
平仮名, a Japanese syllabary, one of the four Japanese writing systems
katakana
片仮名, a Japanese syllabary, one of the four Japanese writing systems
kanji
漢字, Chinese characters used in Japanese, one of the four Japanese writing systems
mojibake
文字化け, "broken characters"; the result of trying to display text in character encodings which a piece of software is not configured to deal with
bento
弁当, a single-portion takeout meal, box lunch
daikon
大根 a kind of white radish
edamame
枝豆, soybeans boiled whole in the green pod and served with salt
fugu
河豚 or フグ, the meat of the toxic pufferfish, prepared by specially trained chefs
gyokuro
玉露, expensive specially harvested green tea
hibachi
火鉢, a small, portable charcoal grill
manju
饅頭 or まんじゅう, a famous, popular, and traditional Japanese confection.
matcha
抹茶, powdered green tea used in the Japanese tea ceremony
miso
味噌, a thick paste made by fermenting soybeans with salt
mochi
餅, the Japanese variant of Chinese rice cake
nori
海苔, food products created from the seaweed laver by a shredding and rack-drying process that resembles papermaking.
shabu shabu
しゃぶしゃぶ, a meal where each person cooks their own food in their own cooking pot from an assortment of raw ingredients
soba
蕎麦, thin brown buckwheat noodles
sukiyaki
すき焼き or スキヤキ, a dish in the nabemono-style (one-pot), consisting of thinly sliced beef, tofu, konnyaku noodles, negi, Chinese cabbage, and enoki mushrooms among others
takoyaki
たこ焼き, タコ焼き, or 蛸焼き, literally fried or baked octopus
tamari
たまり, liquid obtained by pressing soybeans
tempura
天麩羅, classic Japanese deep fried batter-dipped seafood and vegetables
udon
饂飩, a type of thick wheat-based noodle
umami
旨味 or うま味, the taste sensation produced by some condiments such as monosodium glutamate; a basic flavor in sea weed (昆布 kobu)
wasabi
山葵 or わさび, a strongly flavoured green condiment commonly known as Japanese horseradish
yakitori
焼き鳥, a type of chicken kebab
bakufu
幕府, the administration of a Shogun; a shogunate
Kimigayo
君が代, the Japanese national anthem
Mikado
帝, a dated term for "emperor"; specifically for the Emperor of Japan
kami
神, the Japanese word for any sort of god or spirit
torii
鳥居, traditional Japanese gates commonly found at the gateway to Shinto shrines
zazen
座禅, sitting meditation; literally "seated concentration"
arigato
thank you
Akita
秋田 (from 秋田犬, akitainu or akitaken), the Akita Inu, a breed of huge Japanese dog
ekiden
駅伝, long-distance relay, road race
freeters
フリーター, Japanese expression for people between the age of 15 and 34 who lack full time employment or are unemployed, excluding housewives and students
hikikomori
ひきこもり or 引き篭り lit. "pulling away, being confined," i.e.. "acute social withdrawal"
jidoka
自動化, a term used in Lean manufacturing meaning "automation with a human touch."
kaizen
改善, literally "improvement"
kokyo
皇居, the Japanese Imperial palace
kudzu
葛 or クズ, a type of Japanese vine; cultivated in Japan, viewed as a weed in the West
okama
お釜, おかま, オカマ, a Japanese term meaning either an effeminate gay male or a male cross dresser
pachinko
パチンコ, a device used for gambling and is related to pinball machines
sensei
先生, the Japanese term for "master", "teacher" or "doctor". It can be used to refer to any authority figure, such as a schoolteacher, professor, priest, or politician.
shakuhachi
尺八, Japanese bamboo flute
shiatsu
指圧, a form of massage
Shiba Inu
柴犬, the smallest of the six original and distinct Japanese breeds of dog
shinkansen
新幹線, high speed rail in Japan
skosh
(from 少し, sukoshi), a small amount
tanuki
狸, the Japanese name for the animal, Nyctereutes procyonoides, known as a raccoon dog in English
tsutsugamushi
("insect disease" = scrub typhus)
urushiol
(from うるし, a plant that gives a skin rash on contact) a chemical substance found in poison-ivy, used to make "Japanned" lacquer ware

Might have missed some. There are also words of non-Japanese origin that passes here (sudoku springs to mind), which will be taken care of later. :) -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 18:56, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Surely you're joking. You want to remove miso and tempura and hibachi and sensei?! If the words appear in English dictionaries, they stay. Nohat 20:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Please consult dictionaries of English before removing the above words. Fg2 20:48, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
If you delete them, you'll be mercilessly reverted. Please redo your list after consulting Merriam-Webster Online. A quick glance shows that hibachi, miso, koi, tempura (among others) are English words found in the Merram-Webster dictionary. After you redo your list, we'll talk about it. Please don't do any unilateral deletions.--Endroit 20:51, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Tsk... I'm here and not on the article page, am I not? Don't get so hostile, WP:AGF please. I missed sensei and tempura and koi; They have been removed. I stand by the others, though. Totally serious. Entries should only be considered English if they can be found in the most basic English dictionaries and are used by people with absolutely no Japanese knowledge; Specialist dictionaries etc should not count. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 20:57, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I disagree; Merriam-Webster can hardly be considered a specialist dictionary. I have presented a 3-part test to determine if words should be included on this list, and I think my criteria form the most neutral way to keep these lists inclusive but not overly long. The test is as follows:
  1. Does the word occur in English texts with any regularity?
  2. Is it listed in any major English dictionaries?
  3. Is the word used by people who don't speak the foreign language?
This criterion has been used successfully on many other of these pages, and it should apply here nicely as well. As long as a word robustly meets at least one of these criteria, it should be included. I don't think that your criterion that we only include words if they are used by people with absolutely no Japanese knowledge is a reasonable one. It is true that many of these words are used to describe things that are unique to Japanese culture, but I don't see how it is anything but anglocentrism to not consider those words to be "English" simply because they are used to describe a non-English-speaking culture. Nohat 21:39, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I did not say that Merriam-Webster is a specialist dictionary, just that terms found only in specialist dictionaries should not be included.
This article is about English words. It's not List of Japanese words used in English. It's List of English words of Japanese origin. All words included in this list should be without exception English words. To claim that it's not a reasonable criterion that knowledge of English be the only language prerequisite, is quite ludicrous to say the least. A speaker of only English should not need to know Japanese in order to speak English words! Also, citing "Anglocentrism" when dealing with the English language is quite amusing! -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 00:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
If it appears in an English dictionary, then it's an English word. Period. What is anglocentric is the idea of limiting the list to only words that the culturally insular would be familiar with. Furthermore, I am certain that for every word on the list above, there are many people who know that word and know nothing about Japanese, so even by your own criterion all the words should stay in the list. Nohat 02:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Is "Fuehrer" an English word? It appears on all of my dictionaries. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 06:38, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes of course, Fuehrer is an English word of German origin. However, most of us Americans use this word almost exclusively to refer to Adolf Hitler, rather than any other leader. There are often hidden connotations behind any English word of foreign origin. And if you can't distinguish what those subtle differences are between similar type words, it proves that your knowledge of English is shallow, or perhaps English is not your primary language.--Endroit 09:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Rather than using the fairly sensible 3 part test described above, could we just agree to use inclusion in the OED as a base criterion? Beyond that, people could make a case to include any word which is not in the OED and we could discuss each of those words on an individual basis. Sensible?--Hraefen 01:38, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
This is more or less what I meant by "robustly meets at least one of these criteria"—appearing in the OED would definitely count as robustly meeting the second criterion, but there are some words on the list, such as hikikomori, which are not in the OED, but do meet the other two criteria. There are a handful of words on the list that I am dubious about how robustly they have been borrowed into English, but the majority of them I am personally familiar with. Nohat 02:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
"Borrowed into English" ain't enough. It has to be an English word. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 06:38, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
You clearly don't understand how borrowing works. All English words of Japanese origin were borrowed into English. "English word of Japanese origin" means the same thing as "Japanese word borrowed into English". See loanword. Nohat 11:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
It is true that all English words of Japanese origin were borrowed into English. However, none of the words above are English words. Get the distinction? In any case, I could care less about this article. It can rot. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 23:05, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
So how exactly do you distinguish between the words that are English and those that are not? What criterion is there other than being listing in an English dictionary? Nohat 00:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

List of words that aren't "English words of Japanese origin"

Latest comment: 18 years ago66 comments3 people in discussion

I've been waiting for Miborovsky to create a new list after checking with his dictionary, but he never did. So I made the list below, after checking with Merriam-Webster Online (M-W Online).

This is a comprehensive list of words to be eliminated from the main article. It was created by checking all words in our main article against Merriam-Webster Online (M-W Online). All words appearing in M-W Online have been taken out already. All words NOT appearing in M-W Online have been included.

(If M-W Online told me that a word may be on Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com or Merriam-WebsterCollegiate.com instead, I crossed it out already as shown below.)

Nohat has checked all words against OED (Oxford English Dictionary), OAD (Oxford American Dictionary), and American Heritage Dictionary. All words appearing in those dictionaries have been crossed out too. Thanks, Nohat!

I would like to request everyone else to cross out items (like we did below), if he/she believes that any word shouldn't be eliminated. Please don't delete them, just cross them out. Also, please give a reason and sign your name.

Please use Nohat's 3-part test (from the discussion above):

  1. Does the word occur in English texts with any regularity?
  2. Is it listed in any major English dictionaries?
  3. Is the word used by people who don't speak the foreign language?

As long as a word robustly meets at least one of these criteria, it should be deleted from this list (remain in the main article).

Please check carefully, as we WILL surely use this list to eliminate words from the main article. Thanks.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC), revised--Endroit 16:00, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


Arts

  • baren 馬連、馬楝, a tool used in wood printing
May be found at Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford English Dicitionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • choka 長歌, "long poem"; a genre of Japanese poetry
  • gaiden 外伝, "outside legend"; a side story
  • Lolicon Rorikon (ロリコン) is a Japanese abbreviation of Lolita complex, i.e. paedophilia
  • manga 漫画, comic books
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify. Also, many American bookstores have a "manga" section nowadays.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary and Oxford English Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • oekaki お絵描き, Japanese for "scribble" or "doodle". On the Internet, an Oekaki is a message board system that revolves around computer art created by a local art program.
  • otaku オタク or おたく or ヲタク, a geeky enthusiast, especially of anime and manga
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • renga 連歌, "renged poetry"; a form of Japanese collaborative poetry
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • seiyu 声優, a voice actor/actress
  • Shotacon (ショタコン) (also Shota ショタ, and commonly misspelled Shouta) is a Japanese and anime term for a sexual complex where an adult is attracted to an underage boy
  • sumi-e 墨絵, Japanese black ink painting
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • utamakura 歌枕, a rhetorical technique in Waka
  • waka 和歌, a genre of Japanese poetry, often refers to tanka
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • yaoi The term is an acronym derived from the Japanese phrase 「ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし」 (yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi), meaning "no climax, no punch line, no meaning." Also is a term meaning "a male/male relationship", usually with a higher maturity rating than the more-fluffy "shounen-ai"


Military and martial arts terminology

  • ashigaru 足軽, foot-soldiers of medieval Japan
  • bo 棒, a long stick usually made out of wood or bamboo, used as a weapon
  • bokken 木剣, a wooden sword used a training weapon
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • budo 武道, Japanese martial arts (lit. "martial arts")
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • bushi 武士, another name for samurai, lit. "martial practitioner", more commonly "warrior" or "pugilist"
Doesn't appear in Oxford American Dictionary, but bushido does. Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Iaido 居合道, a type of swordfighting that emphasizes "quick-draw" techniques in which a sword strikes as it leaves the sheath
  • Kyudo 弓道, the Japanese art of archery, lit. "bow way"
  • katana 刀, the Japanese longsword (or Japanese swords in general)
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • kenjutsu 剣術, teaching of efficient use of the Japanese sword in combat
  • KiAi 気合, yells used by martial arts students to focus energy when executing a technique
  • koryu 古流, schools of martial arts that predate the Meiji restoration, lit. "old-school"
  • randori 乱取り, in martial arts, free-style practice or sparring, often specifically multiple-attacker freestyle, lit. "messy striking"
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • ronin 浪人, a name given to masterless samurai during the feudal period of Japan, lit. "vagrant person"
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • sai : a dagger, with two long, unsharpened projections attached to the handle
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • shinobi 忍び, a form of Japanese martial arts (see also ninja above)
  • yumi 弓, a Japanese longbow used in the practice of Kyudo (see above)
  • zanbato 斬馬刀, an especially large type of sword consisting of a large blade on a pole, lit. "horse-slaying sword"


Writing system

  • mojibake 文字化け, "broken characters"; the result of trying to display text in character encodings which a piece of software is not configured to deal with


Clothing

Appears in Oxford American Dictionary. Nohat 06:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • yukata 浴衣 or ゆかた, a kind of casual kimono, literally "bath clothing", consisting of one big piece of cloth with two wide sleeves
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary. Appears in Oxford English Dictionary marked with ||, meaning "not naturalized" Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Culinary

  • bento 弁当, a single-portion takeout meal, box lunch
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary and Oxford English Dictionary. Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in American Heritage Dictionary. Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • edamame 枝豆, soybeans boiled whole in the green pod and served with salt
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • gyokuro 玉露, expensive specially harvested green tea
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • manju 饅頭 or まんじゅう, a famous, popular, and traditional Japanese confection.
  • matcha 抹茶, powdered green tea used in the Japanese tea ceremony
Jamba Juice offers Matcha Green Tea (served cold) at their shops. And matcha powder is available for purchase all over the internet.--Endroit 07:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • nappa 菜っ葉, Chinese cabbage, (in Japan, it is a generic term for leaf vegetables.)
Listed under napa cabbage in Merriam-Webster Online.--Endroit 06:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • shabu shabu しゃぶしゃぶ, a meal where each person cooks their own food in their own cooking pot from an assortment of raw ingredients
Shabu-shabu may be found in Merriam-WebsterCollegiate.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • soba 蕎麦, thin brown buckwheat noodles
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • takoyaki たこ焼き, タコ焼き, or 蛸焼き, literally fried or baked octopus
  • udon 饂飩, a type of thick wheat-based noodle
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary. Appears in Oxford English Dictionary marked with ||, meaning "not naturalized" Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • umami 旨味 or うま味, the taste sensation produced by some condiments such as monosodium glutamate; a basic flavor in sea weed (昆布 kobu)
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Government and politics

  • bakufu 幕府, the administration of a Shogun; a shogunate
  • Kimigayo 君が代, the Japanese national anthem
  • zaibatsu 財閥, a "money clique" or conglomerate
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in American Heritage Dictionary. Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Religion

  • kami 神, the Japanese word for any sort of god or spirit
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford English Dictionary marked with ||, meaning "not naturalized". Nohat 06:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • zazen 座禅, sitting meditation; literally "seated concentration"
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford English Dictionary marked with ||, meaning "not naturalized". Nohat 06:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Other

  • arigato thank you
I'm not convinced this is necessarily an English word, but the Styx song "Mr. Roboto", which was a #3 single in 1983, contains the lyric "Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto", so the word is certainly in the English-speaking world's public conscience.Nohat 04:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC) Does not appear in any major English dictionaries. Nohat 06:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
If that were the criterion, we could cross out all words. Every one of them is in the public consciousness in some way. Fg2 20:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Please note that Nohat, Fg2, and I (Endroit) haven't crossed out arigato. I'm assuming we can safely say that arigato is not considered to be an English word by anybody.--Endroit 21:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • bukkake ぶっかけ, a specific kind of pornography which originated in Japan (although in Japanese the word is not necessarily sexual)
As per discussion above, and searcheable on the web.--Endroit 03:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • ekiden 駅伝, long-distance relay, road race
Ekiden relays are held worldwide, including at English speaking places such as Atlanta and Rotura, New Zealand.--Endroit 06:21, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • freeters フリーター, Japanese expression for people between the age of 15 and 34 who lack full time employment or are unemployed, excluding housewives and students
  • hikikomori ひきこもり or 引き篭り lit. "pulling away, being confined," i.e.. "acute social withdrawal"
Apparently, BBC uses this word very often.[1] And I believe Nohat believes his conditions #1 & #3 are met for this word (as per discussion above).--Endroit 03:18, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • jidoka 自動化, a term used in Lean manufacturing meaning "automation with a human touch."
  • kaizen 改善, literally "improvement"
Kaizen is taught in many American business schools, as a method used in Quality Control.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford American Dictionary. Nohat 06:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford English Dictionary, marked with ||, meaning not naturalized. Nohat 06:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • kokyo 皇居, the Japanese Imperial palace
  • okama お釜, おかま, オカマ, a Japanese term meaning either an effeminate gay male or a male cross dresser
  • pachinko パチンコ, a device used for gambling and is related to pinball machines
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford American Dictionary. Nohat 06:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford English Dictionary. Nohat 06:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
May be found in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford American Dictionary. Nohat 06:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford English Dictionary, marked with ||, meaning not naturalized. Nohat 06:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Shiba Inu 柴犬, the smallest of the six original and distinct Japanese breeds of dog
May be found in Merriam-WebsterCollegiate.com; please verify.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Shinkansen should be kept, as per above discussion. Also, Fg2 said it is in OED.--Endroit 02:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford American Dictionary. Nohat 06:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford English Dictionary. Nohat 06:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Sudoku is a new fad in the United States.--Endroit 02:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • typhoon (from 台風, taifu), strong winds
Merriam-Webster Online says that this word came from Chinese/Arabic/Greek only.
  • yakuza やくざ, Japanese organized crime groups
There are many Yakuza movie titles made outside of Japan (including the United States), as shown here in the IMDb Movie Database.--Endroit 03:34, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in Oxford American Dictionary Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Appears in the Oxford English Dictionary, marked with ||, meaning not naturalized. Nohat 06:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Words to Eliminate: Last Call

Latest comment: 18 years ago10 comments3 people in discussion

This is the last call. If nobody has any complaints, suggestions, etc., I will eliminate the following words from the main article, after 48 hours. Please note that 31 words (mostly related to art, sexuality, military and martial arts) will be deleted. Please comment or make changes if you wish to be heard.

Again, I ask people to cross out rather than deleting words, or just make comments. If you cross out anything, please give a reason. Also, please sign your name. Thanks for your cooperation.--Endroit 04:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


Arts

  • choka 長歌, "long poem"; a genre of Japanese poetry
  • gaiden 外伝, "outside legend"; a side story
  • Lolicon Rorikon (ロリコン) is a Japanese abbreviation of Lolita complex, i.e. paedophilia
  • oekaki お絵描き, Japanese for "scribble" or "doodle". On the Internet, an Oekaki is a message board system that revolves around computer art created by a local art program.
  • seiyu 声優, a voice actor/actress
  • Shotacon (ショタコン) (also Shota ショタ, and commonly misspelled Shouta) is a Japanese and anime term for a sexual complex where an adult is attracted to an underage boy
  • utamakura 歌枕, a rhetorical technique in Waka
  • yaoi The term is an acronym derived from the Japanese phrase 「ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし」 (yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi), meaning "no climax, no punch line, no meaning." Also is a term meaning "a male/male relationship", usually with a higher maturity rating than the more-fluffy "shounen-ai"


Military and martial arts terminology

  • ashigaru 足軽, foot-soldiers of medieval Japan
  • bo 棒, a long stick usually made out of wood or bamboo, used as a weapon
  • bushi 武士, another name for samurai, lit. "martial practitioner", more commonly "warrior" or "pugilist"
Doesn't appear in Oxford American Dictionary, but bushido does. Nohat 03:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
bushido is already in the main article, so bushi shall be eliminated.--Endroit 04:39, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Iaido 居合道, a type of swordfighting that emphasizes "quick-draw" techniques in which a sword strikes as it leaves the sheath
  • Kyudo 弓道, the Japanese art of archery, lit. "bow way"
  • kenjutsu 剣術, teaching of efficient use of the Japanese sword in combat
  • KiAi 気合, yells used by martial arts students to focus energy when executing a technique
  • koryu 古流, schools of martial arts that predate the Meiji restoration, lit. "old-school"
  • shinobi 忍び, a form of Japanese martial arts (see also ninja above)
  • yumi 弓, a Japanese longbow used in the practice of Kyudo (see above)
  • zanbato 斬馬刀, an especially large type of sword consisting of a large blade on a pole, lit. "horse-slaying sword"

Writing system

  • mojibake 文字化け, "broken characters"; the result of trying to display text in character encodings which a piece of software is not configured to deal with


Culinary

  • manju 饅頭 or まんじゅう, a famous, popular, and traditional Japanese confection.
  • takoyaki たこ焼き, タコ焼き, or 蛸焼き, literally fried or baked octopus


Government and politics

  • bakufu 幕府, the administration of a Shogun; a shogunate
  • Kimigayo 君が代, the Japanese national anthem


Other

  • arigato thank you
I'm not convinced this is necessarily an English word, but the Styx song "Mr. Roboto", which was a #3 single in 1983, contains the lyric "Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto", so the word is certainly in the English-speaking world's public conscience.Nohat 04:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC) Does not appear in any major English dictionaries. Nohat 06:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
If that were the criterion, we could cross out all words. Every one of them is in the public consciousness in some way. Fg2 20:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Please note that Nohat, Fg2, and I (Endroit) haven't crossed out arigato. I'm assuming we can safely say that arigato is not considered to be an English word by anybody.--Endroit 21:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
  • freeters フリーター, Japanese expression for people between the age of 15 and 34 who lack full time employment or are unemployed, excluding housewives and students
  • jidoka 自動化, a term used in Lean manufacturing meaning "automation with a human touch."
  • okama お釜, おかま, オカマ, a Japanese term meaning either an effeminate gay male or a male cross dresser
  • typhoon (from 台風, taifu), strong winds
Merriam-Webster Online says that this word came from Chinese/Arabic/Greek only.


They're gone now

The 31 words above were eliminated by Nohat and myself. Special thanks to Nohat.--Endroit 08:10, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Cheers! Nohat 09:48, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Forgot one! : kokyo

I forgot to eliminate kokyo, which was in a previous list.

  • kokyo 皇居, the Japanese Imperial palace

This will be the 32nd word to be eliminated. If nobody objects, I will eliminate this word after 24 hours.--Endroit 20:14, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I just eliminated kokyo also.--Endroit 20:36, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Words to Add

Latest comment: 18 years ago8 comments3 people in discussion

22 new words added

I've added some brand new words shown below, this past week. I hope you don't mind. Please look over these, and correct them on the article page, if there are any mistakes or something missing....

--Endroit 08:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Adding keirin

I propose to add keirin (競輪) to the main article, although I didn't find it in M-W (Merriam Webster Online) nor in AHD (American Heritage Dictionary). Here are the reasons why:

  1. Keirin is considered a track cycling event which originated in Japan. Here is a description by BBC Sports.
  2. Keirin is one of the Cycling events in the Summer Olympics. See Cycling at the 2004 Summer Olympics - Keirin Men, for the results in the last olympics. Some more information can be obtained in IOC's Official Website.
  3. Keirin is now officially an international championship event, sanctioned by the UCI. See 2005-2006 UCI Track Cycling World Cup Classics for info regarding the current championship schedules, which include Keirin.

Please let me know what you think.--Endroit 09:30, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Keirin has been added to the main article.--Endroit 08:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


Adding koban

I propose to add koban (交番) to the main article, although I didn't find it in M-W (Merriam Webster Online) nor in AHD (American Heritage Dictionary). Here is the reason why:

The word koban is of Japanese origin, and means police box in Japan. However outside of Japan, the meaning of the word may have shifted to mean "community policing initiative," where the local police and the community work together to drive down crime. I'm sure the use of a police box is still central to these initiatives, though.

These koban initiatives have spread worldwide. Below are info about few such initiatives regarding koban. Search for "koban" in the following documents....

Please let me know what you think.--Endroit 09:30, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Not listed in OED or OADNohat 09:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I wrote most of the three-sentence-long article and added the photo, but I'm not sure I'd call the word "English." Sure, it has appeared in English documents, but the criteria for being an English word are more stringent than that. For example, I once used the word shūgiingiin'un'eiiinkai in an English-language Talk page, but I really don't consider that word to have become English as a result. Returning to koban, I feel that if English-speaking communities widely adopt the koban system and the word comes into widespread use as a result, it might then reach the status of English, but a few isolated examples don't make it English. Also, it's worth noting that a couple of your examples are English publications in non-English-speaking countries. Such publications often include words from the local language, perhaps because the writer is familiar with the local language, but words from a third language pose special problems for translators because they don't know that language. So they might simply copy them verbatim. In summary, I'd classify koban a word that has been introduced in English publications, but has not become part of the English language. Fg2 01:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, I understand my case is weak here.--Endroit 02:12, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
It's a good word to watch, though. If it becomes popular in English-speaking countries, it could very well be added to one of the major dictionaries within a few years. Nohat 09:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Potential additions

Latest comment: 18 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

I need everybody's help on these words below. These words are candidates to be added to the main article. However, the dictionaries I have do not list them. I DO have indications that they may be in either Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com or Merriam-WebsterCollegiate.com though....

But these words MAY NOT be of Japanese origin at all. For example, the word kuruma in Wikipedia is from India.

May I ask everybody to check these words against any of the Oxford (OED or OAD), Websters Unabridged, or Websters Collegiate dictionaries? And please verify if these words are of Japanese origin. You can add any word yourself if you can verify it. Or if you let me know, I will add it in. Thanks--Endroit 11:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

In OAD:
  • nashi and nashi pear
  • teppanyaki
  • katsura
  • katsuobushi (not in above list0
In OED:
  • katsuo (not katsu)
  • koji (marked with ||)
  • matsutake (also matsu)
  • matsuri (not in above list)
  • nashi
  • teppan-yaki (marked with ||)
  • katsura (marked with ||)
  • katsuramono (not in list—seems to be a category of Noh) (marked with ||)
  • Kutani (with cap K)
  • kuzushi (not in list—"In Judo, a method of unbalancing one's opponent.") (marked with ||)
  • soroban (marked with ||)
  • abura is marked as being of Yoruba origin
Nohat 09:21, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Nohat! You are so efficient. I added the following 5 to the article so far, from your OED/OAD list above....
It's going to take a few days to go through everything, though.
Also, I am working off of another list, based on AHD/M-W. From that list I just added an additional 6 as follows....
I will reveal the entire list(s) again when I'm done sorting things out and have finished adding the simpler words into the article.
--Endroit 13:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

37 new words added

Again, a very special thanks to Nohat! I just finished adding the words shown below, during the past few days. Please review these, and correct them on the article page, if there are any mistakes or something missing....

--Endroit 00:32, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Another section?

Latest comment: 18 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Endroit's edit of dan makes it clear that the word belongs in multiple categories, or in a new category. What would we call it? General? Or Words with multiple categories? Fg2 01:11, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I think another category might be nice. How about "General titles, ranks, and honorifics"? And then we can also add san, which appears in the AHD (American Heritage Dictionary). (If we had to pick an existing category for dan, I still believe "Military and martial arts terminology" is more appropriate than "Arts" or "Other," simply because dan for "Karate" seems to be the most popular usage.)--Endroit 17:13, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Potential additions 2

Latest comment: 18 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Please browse through the lists below and comment whether they should be added to the main article. If you have additional information on any dictionary entry and/or etymology, please let us know that too. Thanks.--Endroit 18:43, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

The words from Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com

I don't think any of us has access to Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com nor the printed version of it, which is different from Merriam-Webster Online. However Merriam-Webster Online suggests that the following words are listed in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com:

If we agree that it is OK to do so, once we verify any dictionary entry any entry in Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com to be valid, we can add the word to the main article.

I'm not sure "any dictionary" is what we mean; it includes specialized dictionaries of narrow fields, and even Wiktionary, which anyone can edit at will. What about "authoritative, general dictionaries of English"? Fg2 01:51, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, "authoritative, general dictionaries of English" seems to be reasonable, in general.
That means Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged (ISBN 0877792011) should be OK, as well as Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition (ISBN 0877798087). However, Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com (online subscription), contains other dictionaries, which we shall carefully exclude. Reasonable?--Endroit 02:37, 28 January 2006 (UTC), revised-Endroit 05:32, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Words already in the article based on Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com are:

The words issei, nisei, sansei, kibei

These are different words meaning "Japanese-American."

  • issei (一世) (M-W, AHD)
  • nisei (二世) (M-W, AHD)
  • sansei (三世) (M-W, AHD)
  • kibei (帰米) (AHD)

"M-W" means it appears in Merriam-Webster Online.
"AHD" means it appears in American Heritage Dictionary.
Do we add them all?

The word Nippon

Nippon (日本) appears in AHD (American Heritage Dictionary).
Do we add it in?

The word Japan

Japan appears in all major dictionaries of course. The American Heritage Dictionary entry for Japan has an elaborate history (etymology) of the word. It claims that the word Japan comes from Middle Chinese nzyet-pwun (or nzyet-pwun-kwuk), which in turn comes from the Old Japanese word Nip-pon-gu.

The honorary suffix san

san {さん} appears in AHD (American Heritage Dictionary).
Do we add it in?

The word hokku

hokku (発句) (M-W, AHD) is treated as a synonym for haiku in English dictionaries, as hokku simply redirects to haiku in those dictionaries. Do we still add it in?

The word buto (or butoh)

buto (butoh) (舞踏) (AHD) (from 暗黒舞踏 ankoku butō). This concept is a bit abstract for me. Can somebody add it in?

Minamata disease

Minamata disease (水俣病) (AHD) is considered to be of Japanese origin, right?

  • AHD ETYMOLOGY: After Minamata, a town of western Kyushu, Japan.

Do we add it in?

The word shigella

shigella (from 志賀 潔 Shiga Kiyoshi) (M-W, AHD).

  • AHD ETYMOLOGY: New Latin Shigella, genus name, after Kiyoshi Shiga (1870–1957), Japanese bacteriologist.
  • M-W ETYMOLOGY: New Latin, from Kiyoshi Shiga died 1957 Japanese bacteriologist

Is it OK to add it in?

The word kanamycin

kanamycin (kana is from the Japanese word 金 read kana) (M-W, AHD).

  • AHD ETYMOLOGY: New Latin kanamyc(ēticus), specific epithet of a species of actinomycete ( Japanese kana-, golden (from the color of its colonies) + mycēticus, fungus, from -mycētēs; see –mycete) + –in.
  • M-W ETYMOLOGY: New Latin kanamyceticus, specific epithet of Streptomyces kanamyceticus

Do you think we should add it in?

The word rumaki

rumaki (M-W, AHD) the rumaki dish is of Japanese origin, but the etymology is not clear?

  • AHD ETYMOLOGY: Origin unknown.
  • M-W ETYMOLOGY: perhaps modification of Japanese harumaki, translation of Chinese (Beijing) chunjuǎn spring roll

Does anybody have a clearer case for the etymology showing it to be of Japanese origin?

rumaki may actually be a Hawaiian dish with a Hawaiian name.... Epicurious.com says Vic Bergeron — owner of Trader Vic's restaurant, in San Francisco — brought rumaki into the mainstream, claiming that this hors d'oeuvre came from Hawaii, with Chinese roots and a Japanese name. (Epicurean.com gives a Hawaiian version recipe, substituting chicken livers with pineapples.)
Etymologically then, maki may be the Japanese 巻 maki or the Hawaiian mā'kī. Incidentally, the Hawaiian maki also means "To roll, fold."
After searching for such keywords like bacon (ベーコン), liver (レバー), maki (巻) in Japanese, I didn't find any such dish at a Japanese site. I suspect rumaki is not Japanese at all, but Hawaiian!--Endroit 02:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The word aucuba

aucuba (AHD), the etymology is not clear....

  • AHD ETYMOLOGY: New Latin : possibly from Japanese auku, green + Japanese ba, leaved.

Does anybody have a clearer case for the etymology showing it to be of Japanese origin?

Google Search and ja:アオキ (植物) tell me that the scientific name of the plant comes from 青木葉 Aokiba, lit. blue+tree+leaf, a variant of the Japanese name Aoki. --Kusunose 10:28, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, this makes everything very clear. I just added aucuba to the main article.--Endroit 22:18, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Capitalized

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I have capitalized each word as per the general convention in a dictionary entry. --Bhadani 09:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Hikikomori

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm not quite convinced that "hikikomori" actually justifies itself as an English word. My reasoning is thus: I see no evidence of the term being used outside of dicussion of the epidemic in Japan. For it to actually be considered an English word, I'd like to see its use in an entirely non-Japan context. For instance, the BBC referring to a recluse living in England as a hikikomori. Alternatively, the definition might be changed to be something like, "used in English to specifically refer to Japanese reclusive adolescents and young adults".--SeizureDog 22:21, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

References

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I think this article could use a nice reference section. Would be simple enough, we know through discussion where we verified most of these words. Just attach little endnotes to all of them specifying which dictionary they've been confirmed to be in. Additionally, once that's done I think this stands a chance at becoming a Featured List.--SeizureDog 22:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Re-add hentai?

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hentai is the standard term for Anime or manga pornography in the English language. It has accuired a meaning independent of it's original japanese meaning and thus should be on the list.

Agree. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 09:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Disagree, because we have a separate list just for Anime and manga terminology. This list should be reserved for "mainstream" English usage, as opposed to otaku usage.--Endroit 17:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
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