Talk:List of Eurovision Song Contest winners/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Definition of "winners"

This list lists no winners of the ESC, the winners are actually/or also/ the songwriters. The prize is given to the songwriters.(E-Kartoffel (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2010 (UTC))

Yeah, I'd also like to know where the songwriters are. And who actually wins a Eurovision Song Contest: the performer, the songwriter(s), the respective country? Where are the exact rules and definitions? This mess is really confusing. Obviously nobody wants or cares to know... We should clean it up. Aren't there any experts on this topic? --Catgut (talk) 22:52, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Dead winners pointed out

I have put a † at all the deceased winner of the contest. As that has becomed praxis at all lists of winners and people who has died all over wikipedia. When it comes to the bands I guess it is the individual articles that the † at the band members names.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the reason for this. They didn't die on stage, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.244.28.52 (talk) 12:59, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Second place

This is a table with the winners of the Eurovision Song Contest. Why the second place countries are also included? I don't understand. Please explain and edit the table. AlexandruRo (talk) 20:52, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

By Country

UK is missing from this list. 83.233.90.252 (talk) 22:50, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

nm 83.233.90.252 (talk) 22:51, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, the seperation of the two german wins into seperate countries in the graphic map is inkoherent with common logics. Either mark it in the map correctly as 2 wins (Federal Germany is legally still the same country today as it was 1982), or change the table to reflect two different countries as it is done for the former yugoslavian countries. The actual map may be correct in a warped way of sense for bean counters, to the average watcher it is technically incorrect. The discussion on the graphics page sounds rather academic and stupid on this aspect too. It has not solved this in years.217.229.224.34 (talk) 08:45, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Spanish flag

Without wishing to criticize and only because it has struck me, I would like to point out that although it is very small and hardly stands out, the flag that appears as Spanish is not the current, but which represented Spain in an earlier dictatorial era (from 1945 to 1977). Not wanting to enter into discussions or political differences, I think that that flag, legally, represents the Spain of today as little as the flag of Spanish Republican era (from 1931 to 1939). A greeting — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.164.98.189 (talk) 01:09, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I just checked and the last time they won, their flags are different than to the flag that currently represents them. If you look at their flag on the amount of wins table (By Country), is different to the big table of winners and runner ups. This, I believe is because back then when they won, their flag was different than to the modern flag (available on the amount of wins table [By Country]). I hope this helps.

Cathairawr (talk) 22:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Cathairawr is correct. Flags that are used on this (or any other Wikipedia article) correspond to the flag that would have been used in the era that it is referring to. For example, any articles detailing Spain between 1945 to 1977, would use the flag for Spain during that era. Articles detailing modern day Spain, would use the flag that is currently in use for Spain today. If you notice, this has been applied for Bosnia-Herzegovina too. Bosnia's old flag version which they used between 1992 - 1998 was and this flag we used on Bosnian articles during that period. When Bosnia adopted a new version of flag ; then we started to use that version for Bosnian articles from that moment onwards. Hope this helps. Wesley☀Mouse 10:29, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Winners' Map

File:Eurovision Winners Map (Yugoslavia + West Germany Update).png

Map showing the winners of Eurovision right up until 2012.

Hello, there is a lot of confusion with the Yugoslavia and Germany/West Germany wins. Personally myself, I did not know what relevance the inset had to the map until I looked at it's talk page. This could be made more clear by labelling them, perhaps something like this? The only reason I have not replaced this, is because I'm inexperienced at uploading newer versions of files. I hope this helps in some form.

Original graphic belongs to AxG, under the Creative Commons 3.0 License.

Cathairawr (talk) 21:51, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

As much as the idea is an excellent one; I think it is impossible to implement it onto the maps due to the software used for creating them. All maps are created in Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) vector format using Inkscape; and makes it impossible to add text to an image, in the same way that you added text to the one on the right. This makes it easier to colour each country as a whole, without increasing the bytesize of the image file. The only way around it would be to do them in Joint Photographic Experts Group (JPEG) or Portable Network Graphics (PNG) format - but this would cause havoc with the file size, as we wouldn't be able to keep to the consistent file bytesize; without reducing the resolution of the JPEG or PNG images which would then create a poor quality image that would be harder to read. The image currently used (File:Eurovision winners map.svg) is in SVG format; where as your version (File:Eurovision Winners Map (Yugoslavia + West Germany Update).png) is in PNG format. Hope this answers your query. Wesley☀Mouse 22:00, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Germany's wins

Sorry if I seem a pain at first instance; however, I just realised that on the official Eurovision website, it lists Germany as having won twice, and has made no reference to a West Germany scenario. I'm curious as to know why Germany is pink on the map. Is it due to the encyclopaedic reasons of the country's history? Just curious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.197.135 (talk) 20:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

it does not make sence, a country called West Germany never existed. In 1949 the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic where founded. In 1990 the GDR stoped existing and joined the Federal Republic of Germany, they did NOT form a new country, the Federal Republic of Germany still exists (and it is still the ARD broadcasting networks as well). it is like the USA did not become a different country when Alaska and Hawaii became US States in the 1950ies.07:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.208.187.120 (talk)

2 years on and the map is still incorrectly showing only one German win. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 14:19, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Runner-up

Can someone please explain to me why there are the runners-up included in this table? This is supposed to be a list of Eurovision Song Contest winners. If nobody can give a good and decent reason, I'm gonna remove the runners-up and the margin columns as they are both off-topic here. Porcina (talk) 18:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I took the liberty of reverting your edit so we can discuss this. The runner up section is notable in that there were a couple times when the runner up hosted the contest instead of the winner. The margins are also relevant because it puts the win into perspective. I'm ok with removing it from the article, but let's keep the status quo until there's consensus. Mr. Gerbear|Talk 19:59, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Mr Gerbear is correct. This article, which is also a featured articles on the Wikipedia classification scale, uses the runner-ups to show point margins, as some winning countries chose not to host the following contest and under the rules of the Eurovision Song Contest the runner-up is given the option to host when these circumstances arise. This debate was also mentioned briefly 5 years ago. Wesley ☮ Mouse 20:58, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't see how your arguments are relevant regarding this topic. This article is about the WINNERS of the Eurovision Song Contest, not about who hosted the contest. The margin column could stay, but the the runners-up is COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC here and irrelevant. Porcina (talk) 08:57, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately no you are incorrect here. It was agreed by consensus to include runner-ups. The article is also a Featured List article based on Wikipedia standards of article quality. It received that status based on its current format, and was advised back then to include the runner-ups too. If you intend to keep the margins column, then you'd need to show what you are margining, and thus runner-ups column is required. And some countries who came 2nd did host a contest in the past, whenever the winning country chose not to host the show. If you are only here to be a disruptive user and not abide to prior consensus or listen to what others are saying, then what are you here for exactly? And while I'm on the subject, you may wish to remove the data on your main user page, as it is in violation of Wikipedia polices and is subject to be removed. Wesley ☮ Mouse 14:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Wesley, please don't forget to assume good faith. Don't accuse anyone of being a disruptive user unless they are deliberately and obviously being so.

That said, Porcina, for us to agree that the runner ups are irrelevant would need you to show us the advantage of not having them in the list itself. Like Wesley said, this list is featured, which means the format should be discussed to not compromise quality. The two main reasons that I think these should be kept are that 1) Winners of the contest generally host the next year's contest, which makes second placers relevant in the case where the winner does not host, and 2) Margins of winning helps put the victory in context. Did they win by a landslide, or did they barely make it? It's a pretty relevant thing to have. Mr. Gerbear|Talk 20:27, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

I am assuming good faith here. 1) Porcina used CAPS, which is "shouting" in written context. 2) Looking at Porcina's talk page, there have been several warnings/comments all along the lines of disruptive editing. 3) The content on their main user page is totally breaching WP:UPNOT (which has been known to be sign of disruptiveness). And 4) looking at the editing history, there is a pattern of disruptive edits. So I think I'm safe to conclude that no accusation has been cast, not when the facts speak volumes. ;-) Wesley ☮ Mouse 02:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Map colours

Just about to update the map with the 2014 results but noticed that the colours don't seem to form a logical sequence, e.g. the purple representing 2 wins appears much more prominent than others. Any objections to my changing them from blue to red (in increasing order)? cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 23:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

1969

1969 lists no runner-up which seems to suggest there was no-one else in the contest. Perhaps Switzerland could be listed as the runner-up as it was the nearest to 1st place (losing by a margin of 5 points). Not sure why there's a (4) there either since the next position was 5th place.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 11:11, 28 November 2014 (UTC)