Talk:List of Haverford College people

[Why this list?]

isnt a big list of alumni with little info about the college kind of odd?

Yes.--Johnsoniensis (talk) 10:20, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

No. There is a major article about the College to which this list is merely ancillary. The point is that an exceptionally small undergraduate institution (not a university), with a very limited number of alumni, nevertheless has an extraordinary number of graduates who are notable or distinguished in their accomplishments.PDGPA (talk) 16:29, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

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External links modified

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Carnegie Endowment

Is this something other than the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (Washington, DC) ? (It is good to have an explanation of the distinction of this college with only 40 years of history.)--Johnsoniensis (talk) 20:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Elimination of many names by ElKevbo in Feb 2022

I have questioned ElKevbo's extensive 2/6/22 edit on his talk page. Please feel free to join the conversation there. PDGPA (talk) 04:28, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

No, let's keep the conversation here where other editors who watch this article can more easily participate. ElKevbo (talk) 05:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Copied from my User Talk page:

My comment on your proposed slimming of the list of Haverford College people is a bit different from those posted above regarding particular grads of Calumet, etc. The rules at WP:LISTPEOPLE, which you cited as justification for your extensive edit, do not require that the listed person have their own article, as you seem to suggest. For example, as stated in that part of the style guide, the person can be the principal human actor behind a topic that has an article. Steven Pico is an example of this. Others you would drop seem at least as notable in their respective fields as dozens of individuals who have their own Wiki page for no good reason at all, other than ego (or energetic friends or relatives), as we all know. Alumni Jessica Berson, Charles Lawrence and Robert Sataloff strike me as examples of that, for which reliable sources are given in each case. Certainly, they are not listed just because they happen to be alums, or even because they are "notable" as compared with most other alums of the same college; their accomplishments would warrant at least a short Wiki article that would surely not be subject to rapid deletion if someone were to go to the trouble of creating one. I did not understand this list, nor would most readers, I think, as an index of Haverford grads who happen to have their own WIki pages. (Some of those who do have a page strike me as far from generally notable, TBH.) Would you concede retention of the folks that I have mentioned and others of objectively comparable achievement and notability? PDGPA (talk) 03:55, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

That guideline explicitly says that "editors [can] choose even more stringent requirements, such as already having an article written (not just qualifying for one), or being notable specifically for reasons related to membership in this group. This is commonly used to control the size of lists that could otherwise run to thousands of people." That criterion - the list could easily list thousands of people - certainly applies to this list. I only removed people for whom I could not find an existing Wikipedia article. If I made a mistake - totally possible! - please feel free to restore entries for which there is an article. If someone is notable but doesn't have an existing article, please feel free to begin one! (And if someone who has an article does not meet our notability guidelines, feel free to ask about that article and perhaps even nominate it for discussion.) ElKevbo (talk) 05:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

It's certainly not true that "this list could easily [include] thousands of people." Haverford College is tiny and has no graduate schools. For the first hundred years of its existence (from 1833) it graduated fewer than 100 a year (many fewer at first), and fewer than 200 annually until the 1980s. Even then the college expanded to under 1500 total undergraduates, and thus added 350 or so new alumni per year. The number of "notables" cannot arithmetically possibly be in the "thousands." PDGPA (talk) 05:31, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

If you disagree with "has a Wikipedia article and is therefore clearly notable," what criteria do you propose for entries in this list article? ElKevbo (talk) 05:35, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

First, I would love to hear from others, rather than this be just a back-and-forth between the two of us. As I think I already explained, it seems to me that "notable by virtue of having a Wikipedia article about them" is both over- and under-inclusive. My initial thought for an alternative standard would be to try to keep on the list any alum of the institution who has made a significant contribution in any field of endeavor, or has received a significant public honor in any field, as documented either by a Wikipedia article or by reliable and independent sources of the kind that Wikipedia expects, set forth in footnoted references. PDGPA (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

A project-wide Request for Comments would be one way to gather additional opinions. That's a bit formal, however, so you may want to start with something informal such as dropping a (neutral) message at WT:UNI or WT:EDUCATION. ElKevbo (talk) 22:24, 7 February 2022 (UTC)