Talk:List of Jewish fraternities and sororities

Delta Pi

To ensure a discussion about this doesn't go down the memory hole, here is the history, to date, of attempts to create a Wikipedia article for the Canadian Jewish sorority, Delta Pi.

A stub article for the sorority had been created in 2005, but deleted on a thin vote as not being WP:Notable. A second attempt at a stub (~very limited info) page had been offered in 2010, but this had also been deleted on a thin vote for the same reason. These were probably fair deletions due to lack of content or quality of the articles, but may have created a bias against the group. An article for an unaffiliated movie, 1985's "Mugsy's Girls" then began using the "Delta Pi" namespace as a redirect some time in 2015, taking readers to the article about the movie because it used the same name for a fictitious sorority.

In 2020 I wrote a comprehensive article for Delta Pi in a style that matches others within the scope of the Fraternity and Sorority project, replacing the movie redirect, but again, this was deleted by a vote on notability concerns after some discussion and my attempts to add more sources. I was concerned about bias, stating this in the discussion. But the vote to Delete won on a slight margin.

I thought it unfair, as many Greek society articles include a note at the top, asking for additional references. The fact of Delta Pi's existence was proven; but it was the notability issue that was of concern. Those against the page were rather passionate in their claims that the references were bad - more passionate than is shown toward many, many pages on Wikipedia that similarly have thin references.

Greek societies commonly show notability via several standard methods:

• References to the de facto standard reference book in the Greek Society world, Baird's Manual.
• Linkage to college or university Student Organization list websites, which confirm that a society is a valid, recognized student organization.
• Yearbooks, where pages about the society are offered in linkable, or published form.
• News articles in national or otherwise notable newspapers, magazines or other publications that discuss the group, with more than a passing mention: An article about Greek life, with photo(s), quotes and information about a group should be sufficient.

But in the case of Delta Pi, such references were lean: The organization emerged as a local just prior to the most recent printing of Baird's, so it was missed. Canadian universities in almost all cases do not recognize social fraternities or sororities as student groups, so they are not mentioned (typically) on institutional websites. Yearbooks are uncommon now, and I was unable to find one listing Delta Pi from any of the schools it serves. Finally, though there was some mention of Delta Pi in smaller community papers and on student websites, these were of limited notability themselves. What I did find were the following references: --They include regional papers, mention on Hillel and B'nai Brith websites as significant sponsors, mention of longstanding support by large, 100-year old notable charitable foundations, and several student group lists and blogs. I'd also found a comprehensive list of Ontario Non-Profit entities, where the Beta chapter is listed.

I thought these showed a preponderance of evidence that this 30-year old organization existed, and was notable. But not quite good enough.

Existence seems proven: Even without Baird's, yearbooks, official university recognition or national press, clearly, these Canadian fraternities and sororities exist.

Assuming that 30-year-old Delta Pi will continue its operations, when additional references of notability pop up, please add them here. It would be terrific to see an official university website listing them. Or stronger mention on the websites of charitable recipients, or their local Hillel centers. Or mention in a major newspaper. I've kept a copy of the WP article; once additional references would pass this strangely, and zealously applied bar of notability, I'll offer up the page again, with these additional references.

For your review, here is the deletion discussion

And for the record, I have no affiliation with the sorority; am not Canadian, nor Jewish, and am not female. Jax MN (talk) 19:31, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

References

Phi Sigma Sigma

Phi Sigma Sigma had been on this list since inception, but a recent edit removed the sorority. They were founded as a non-sectarian group, at a time when many other sororities were limited to Christians (or Protestants, specifically), or to Jews. Hence, many, but not all of Phi Sigma Sigma's founders were Jewish. Many influential leaders, and notable members were Jewish. But again, these were a portion of the membership and not all.

Ought they be categorized here, on this list? They strike me as similar to Tau Delta Phi fraternity, which has called itself secular since 1932. Before I move to return Phi Sigma Sigma to the list, with a note indicating its secular beginnings but that it was one of the relatively few sororities welcoming to Jewish sisters, your thoughts? Jax MN (talk) 22:32, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Going Greek includes them, but perhaps they belong on a separate sublist on the page along with Tau Delta Phi. I'd actually go off of whether all of their founders were Jewish.Naraht (talk)