Talk:List of Masses by Joseph Haydn

Whatever happened to H 22/2? --UrbanGrill 18:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

• This was added at some point. Marking this as answered to keep editors from checking. DavidRF (talk) 02:00, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Last six masses

Its mentioned in the text that 7-12 form a group. Isn't it 9-14? The last six? Is there some confusion with ordinal and Hoboken numbering? DavidRF (talk) 02:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello David, I don't really know the basis of Haydn mass-numbering, but no matter what system we use, the text surely should agree with the numbers. So I changed 7-12 to 9-14, as you suggested. Opus33 (talk) 16:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hoboken Catalog vs. numbering

Is there some page that explains why (H. 22/9) is Mass No. 10, while (H. 22/10) is Mass No. 9? Or is that a mistake? --tessc (talk) 23:40, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

• Hoboken got the chronological order wrong. Heligmesse did premiere before Paukenmesse. The Hoboken number is citable and can't be changed. Chronological mistakes are common in music catalogues. Here, the "ordinal numbering" appears to be attempting to fix that. To tell you the truth, I don't know who came up with the ordinal numberings. Are they just chronologic? They don't appear to be commonly used. DavidRF (talk) 20:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
  • OK. Ordinal numbers are from New Grove. They don't line up with Hoboken in a couple of cases because Hoboken was off on the chronology. I'll add a citation. DavidRF (talk) 14:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. The Missa in tempore belli page had the wrong ordinal (matching the Hoboken instead of being No. 10) and I didn't know why. I've corrected that and copied the same ref you added here to that page. --tessc (talk) 17:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

where is requiem

where is haydn's requiem in here? or do requiems not count as masses —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.154.138.141 (talk) 05:02, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

A Mass is a setting of the ordinary (the invariable parts of the liturgy): Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus/Benedictus and Agnus Dei. Since the liturgy for the requiem "mass" omits the Gloria and the Credo, musical settings of the requiem (which also set the proprium of the requiem mass) are usually not catalogued as masses. Two more remarks:

• I have just now looked at the article on Mass (music), and I believe works like Britten's War Requiem (and other requiems listed) do not belong there, since these works do not fit the definition given in the introduction.
• I am unaware of the existence of a requiem setting by Josef Haydn (but that may be my mistake), though I am quite sure there is one by Michael Haydn.

Regards. --Francesco Malipiero (talk) 18:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I checked in the New Grove: there is no Requiem by Joseph Haydn. Perhaps Anon mean the one by Michael Haydn. Opus33 (talk) 20:49, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there are at least two by Michael Haydn: the one in C minor that inspired Mozart's own Requiem, and one in the weird (for a Requiem) key of B-flat major. I've never heard nor heard of a Requiem by Joseph, but I wouldn't take Opus33's remark as confirmation of that fact. James470 (talk) 02:09, 22 October 2010 (UTC)