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Talk:List of Nazis (F–K)

Latest comment: 2 years ago by 37.138.250.219 in topic Imprecise definition for this list and questionably inclusion of Hans Dietrich Genscher, German foreign minister 1974-1982
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Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Axis Biographical Research is a self-published defunct website by amateur historians and WWII buffs. The authors are not recognized experts in the field, and have not been previously published by reputable, independent, third-party publications. Per WP:RS and WP:SPS, these kinds of sources cannot be used as references for Wikipedia articles. The most they can be used for is as External Links. ABR has an extensive bibliography, which is what it is actually most useful for in terms of sourcing Wikipedia articles. If the sources it cites qualify as reliable sources and support specific information in this article, then those are the sources that should be cited, with specific reference to which information, which source, which page, and not a self-published amateur website. Anybody can start a webpage and post an extensively-researched article on it...but that does not mean that it is a reliable source. There were literally hundreds of articles at Wikipedia sourced to these sites, all done several years ago when Wikipedia wasn't so scrupulous about sourcing. That is no longer the case. The editor who repeatedly keeps restoring these references has been repeatedly warned in the past about edit warring on these WWII-related articles, and has thus far made no effort to discuss the issue, which is, frankly, open-and-shut. Fladrif (talk) 13:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Imprecise definition for this list and questionably inclusion of Hans Dietrich Genscher, German foreign minister 1974-1982

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Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Can you be more precise in your definition for this page? What must apply for a person to be listed there? Your definition seems a bit unprecise and ambiguous.

And there are some people listed here who do not fit (at least part of) the definition.

You have listed, for example, Hans Dietrich Genscher, foreign minister and vice chancellor of (West-)Germany 1974-1982.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_deutschen_Au%C3%9Fenminister#Bundesminister_des_Ausw%C3%A4rtigen_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_(seit_1951)

How does he fit your definition:

1. "A list of notable people who were at some point a member of the defunct Nazi Party (NSDAP)."

For your first definition, this would apply to Genschwer. He was technically a party member and he was a notable person (**after** the war).

Must the person have been notable during the time of the Nazis (1933-1945) or afterwards or either or?

2. "This is a list of notable figures who were active within the party and did something significant within it that is of historical note ..."

This does not apply to Genscher.

3. " ... or who were members of the Nazi Party according to multiple reliable publications ..."

This would apply.

The use of the word "or" between definition 2 and 3 would imply that either one of 2 or 3 (or both) must apply - but isn't 3 all members of the NSDAP? So that would include everyone that was at some time in the party, regardless whether they actively entered it or were put on the list.

I think if you shorten the definition you could actually make it clearer and more precise.

H.D. Genscher was not an active member of the NSDAP and not a well known Nazi.

See the linked source:

"Der langjährige Bundesaußenminister war noch 1945 als Mitglied der NSDAP registriert worden. Genscher bestand bei Bekanntwerden 1994 darauf, seinerzeit unwissentlich auf eine Sammelliste geraten zu sein." translation (by DeepL and proofread by me): "The long-serving Federal Foreign Minister had been registered as a member of the NSDAP as late as 1945. When it became known in 1994, Genscher insisted that he had unwittingly been put on a collective list."

https://www.welt.de/kultur/article989531/Von-Grass-bis-Genscher-Wer-noch-in-der-NSDAP-war.html

This is also confirmed in another Wikipedia page:

"At age 17, close to the end of the war, he and his fellow soldiers became members of the Nazi Party due to a collective application (Sammelantrag) by his Wehrmacht unit. He later said he was unaware of it at the time."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Dietrich_Genscher

IMHO, just having a random list of "Nazis" without a clear definition and explanatory note with sources for each one seems a bit arbitrary. Either make it include all who were members in the NSDAP, or make it a list of Nazi leaders and key players between 1933 and 1945 (which already exists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_Party_leaders_and_officials) or widen the parameters, but then provide precise criteria.

Putting Genscher on this list, not only does not do him justice (especially considering his age at that time, the role he actually did (not) play and the role he played in politics in later years), it also seem grotesque in the face of the real atrocities which were committed and other people who did play active roles as Nazis and some of them still held positions of power and influenced politics, the justice system etc. and upheld their inhumane Nazi beliefs even after 1945. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.138.250.219 (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

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