Talk:List of Norwegian supercentenarians

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who should be the oldest Nordic person? -Saro Dursun (born June 1, 1899), born in Turkey, but living in sweden. or -Gudrun Omdahl Onshuus(born July 17, 1899) born in Norway, and still living in Norway.

I have noticed on the list of nordic supercentarins there are some cases that could be listed as the oldest living nordic person at the time(such as Christinn mortensen, but he was living in california)

-and if we decide that Saro Dursun is the oldest, then if she reaches age 110, she should not be on the Nordic list of supercentairins because eveyone on the list was born in a Nordic country, but some died in the US for example.

-also is Wilhelmine Sande a Male or a Female? because on the nordic list of supercentatins it says Wilhelmine is a female, but on progessive list of the oldest living nordic person its lists Wilhelmine is a male.

-another discrepancy I saw was that, Åsne Hustveit on the nordic list of supercentarins it says she died On December 7, 1989 aged 110 years, 5 days. On the Progressive list of the oldest living nordic person it says she died December 17, 1989 aged 110 years, 15 days.

Saro Dursun should be. We can't just assume her case is false because she was born in another country. However is Gudrun Onshuus is verified as a supercentenarian before Saro Durson, then we have to go by our source (the GRG), and switch to Gurdun Onshuus. The list is also based on the oldest person who was living in a Nordic country, not the oldest by birth. SiameseTurtle (talk) 21:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Saro Dursun is a fraud because she allegedly gave birth to a daughter in the 1960's. Her daughter's age is verified, which means Saro Dursun committed social security fraud, by claiming she was older than she really was so she could reach retirement age earlier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.175.13.86 (talk) 09:02, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

oh, yeah, that makes sense, but if Saro Durson reaches supercentarian status I dont think she should be added to the list of nordic supercentarins because she was born Turkey. I was not doubting the validity of Saro's case, i just changed it before because she was not born in a nordic country. However, i just found a message from the WOP group:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Worlds_Oldest_People/message/11327 , where Mr. young suggests that Saro case is "very unlikley" and "Rut Mikaelsson should probably be considered as sweden's oldest person"(suggesting that Gudrun Omdahl Onshuus will be the oldest nordic person when she gets validated)

Actually it says that Saro Durson is very unlikely to have documentation. That's probably not actually the case though as Turkey does have some records, but actually getting hold of them would be the problem [1] SiameseTurtle (talk) 23:50, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

To my knowledge, their has never been a validated Turkish supercentarin, but there was a recent claim of Yakup satar(1898-2008), but never got validated. so even if Saro has documentation, she would proably not get validated, but it depends when she immigrated to Sweden. It would be amazing if Saro got validated, because she would be the first validated supercentarin of her country, but I guess its possible because daniel Guzman-garcia(1897-2008) was just validated as columbia's first supercentain. Saro should be listed as the oldest living in the nordic coutries, but when summer comes, and if Gurdun Onshuus is validated, and Saro isnt, then Gurdun Onshuus should replace Saro as the oldest living in the nordic countries until Saro gets validated. And if gets Saro Durson gets validated she should be listed as the oldest living in the nordic countries, but not on the list of nordic supercentrains because she was born in Turkey. Does the GRG even have a correspondent for Turkey? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.136.227.72 (talk) 01:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

This has gotten a bit absurd. Saro Dursun immigrated to Sweden at least after 1985 (she wasn't listed as living here at that time), so at least the Swedes have probably no idea whether her age is the one claimed. In my estimation Moloko Temo is more likely to be verified than she is, but since this isn't stated anywhere on the web, she must be regarded as the oldest nordic person... Is there no way to get around this? Or do we simply HAVE to wait until Onshuus gets validated? What if no nordic person gets to be 110 for several years. Are we stuck with Dursun then? Yubiquitoyama (talk) 09:01, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. What if we list immigrated persons separately? That way we always have the oldest nordic-born person listed, even when there is someone immigrated who might be older. Note though that historically, there simply hasn't been any such immigrated cases. No one moves TO the nordic countries ;) Yubiquitoyama (talk) 09:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Then we'd end up with a list of the oldest Nordic-born people still living in Scandinavia/their own country. When it comes down to the oldest in the country, birthplace is largely irrelevant. For example, Lucy d'Abreu was the oldest British person by the GRG and the media. She spent most of her life in Ireland, and moved to Scotland towards the end of her life but she was still the oldest in the UK. Also, you wouldn't be able to prove that there isn't a Swedish-born person who moved to Australia who is now older than the current oldest in Scandinavia. People who die at 109 aren't validated so there's no real reason why Jenny Hanssen should be added, but Saro Dursun not. To say Gudrun Omdahl Onshuus is the oldest in Scandinavia would be original research: We have no evidence that says either are false, or that either are true - all we have are the claims. The media say Dursun is the oldest, and we have to stick to that. We can't just assume she's a false case because of her place of birth. If it was an outlandish claim, then yes, but 109 is perfectly reasonable.SiameseTurtle (talk) 10:13, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't like this idea that an immigrant who dies at 109 is suspect, and someone who has lived there all their life and dies at 109 is added.

Whether you like it or not, it is not baseless in this particular situation. The nordic countries have so old and reliable records that anyone who has lived there their entire life can virtually be considered validated (or at least as close to it as anyone not a verified SC), as long as they can be confirmed alive (which I might add, Saro Dursun has not been, as contrary to all other eldest in the nordic countries who have been visited by the news media). Someone moving there from a country with much less reliable records, after their 90th birthday, are simply less reliable, whether it is politically correct to say so or not. And I know that it is considered "original research" wikipedia-style, but that is why I consider the situation absurd. We are stuck with a case with very little backing because of these rules. So, I maintain, the current situation is not good. The question now is how it could be made better. Yubiquitoyama (talk) 10:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Another problem is that for all intents and purposes, Saro Dursun is basically a "ghost record", much like the 123-year-olds and such that from time to time come up in the american SSDI. The only reason we know about her is because Sweden has complete records over every citizen registered in the country, and these records are publically available. Among these, some, especially immigrants, were registered when they entered the country, but for various reasons left the country again without this being recorded. Several of these are left in the records and most of them don't even have an address, although Saro Dursun does. However, she has never, ever actually being reported on in the media (except as a sidenote about the official records), which simply isn't true for all the other cases listed here. I agree that listing 109-year-olds always might be problematic and up for discussion, but it is without a doubt even more problematic in a case like this.

Yubiquitoyama (talk) 11:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC) Any opinions by other users? SiameseTurtle (talk) 22:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow,I guess if Dursun immigrate that late, then i gess well just have to wait til Gudrun turns 110, or try to have Dursun validated(but that probably wont happen) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.136.251.200 (talk) 03:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Well we haven't actually had any reports that Saro Dursun made it to 110 yet, which is a necessity for listing someone here SiameseTurtle (talk) 13:11, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

"Emigrant records"

A new list was made seperating emigrants from the rest. I personally think this is wrong, and especially so for a case like Hermann Smith-Johanssen, who was born in, and died in, Norway (if we start to judge people from how long they were abroad, it will be impossible to make any list, since this information is seldom available; purely apart from the fact that it would be original research). Also a case like Johanne Svenson, who indeed lived her entire life in a Nordic country makes this new list completely absurd. Wise from previous edit-wars, I urge anyone with an opinion on this to discuss it here (and most especially the person who just changed it without taking it to talk) before I change it back (which I will, in a few days time, if nothing constructive comes out from the talk page). Yubiquitoyama (talk) 11:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Several days and no comments. However, I have slightly rethaught the subject since very few have had objections on the other supercentenarian lists being divided in emigrant/non-emigrant cases. I will though (when I have the time) remove Herman-Smith Johansen (who was born and died in Norway), Wilhelmine Sande and Johanne Svenson (both of which never left the Nordic countries) from the emigrant list. For those having problems with that: TAAAAAALK. Yubiquitoyama (talk) 06:51, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I also object to it since it means emigrants and immigrants accumulate on an insignificant list. The anonymous user who keeps changing it does not seem to want to discuss it either. SiameseTurtle (talk) 16:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Current oldest

There has been some discussion on "current oldest" and I have a suggestion: If we simply seperate the current oldest from the rest, it is possible to be specific about he/she not being validated (which is currently unclear in the full list). This is more or less how it had been done before my latest edit (which was motivated by a number of other problems with that edit), except for there still being one unvalidated "current oldest" in the oldest-list. I would personally like to add oldest for every nordic country (making a list of 5) rather than just "the oldest", but I'm open for debate on that one. Yubiquitoyama (talk) 15:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

In terms of solving the problem of the current oldest, we'd still have the issue of saying whether Saro Dursun or Rut Mikaelsson is the oldest in Sweden.

Latest changes

PLEASE take this in talk on "List of Nordic supercentenarians. Several details are questionable, so motivate or do not change: 1. Julia Lyng is recognized by Louise Epstein and therefore validated (http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/oldest.html) 2. Aasne Hustveit was 110 years and 15 days, both in Luoise Epstein's list and in grg:s. They can and do make mistakes, but if you want to claim they do, please list a reference to a site saying so. She also is spelled either with two A or with Å. Most definitely not with just one A. 3. There are supercentenarians validated all the way back to 1984, so no reason to shorten that list. 4. Swedish å, ä and ö disappears everytime you make a change, which is strange even if you have a foreign language pack, so if you make some changes for them, please stop. I can accept removing Gerda Morton since I can't find her validated, but I'm not sure she isn't. I will change these things if there is no explanation in a couple of days. Yubiquitoyama (talk) 08:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Herman Smith-Johannsen

According to me Herman Smith-Johannsen should be considered the oldest living person in Canada until his return to Norway where he was born. Then he became the oldest living person in Norway, even if he spent just few days or weeks there, before passing away. What do you think?--Pascar (talk) 23:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ingeborg Mestad

She was born 15 November 1899, not 15 December. That she should be born 15 December was caused of a writing mistake by a priest when she was baptisted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.88.125.66 (talk) 10:12, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Oldest living person section

I have removed this table because the names have had citation needed tags in place since August 2011. No one has added sources in over three years. All names in these tables must have a source stating that they were the oldest living person at the time. CommanderLinx (talk) 12:51, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

It would be better you look for references or sources and add them instead of just removing this section with only one quick click. By removing this section no one would be able to look for the sources you just asked for in future. 31.16.92.222 (talk) 00:31, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Users have had over three years to look for and add sources. It seems they do not exist if they haven't been added in that time. The WP:BURDEN isn't on me to provide sources either. CommanderLinx (talk) 04:36, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Dear CL! I think everybody knows now that you like quickly removing information on wikipedia. It would be ok for everyone here except for you to read such information even when they do not have a citation. So please let these infomation here and mark them uncitited. If you really want to improve the article you would look for citations and not just remove important things! This is an egoistic behaviour in my opinion and can be seen as a kind of vandalism.31.19.176.195 (talk) 18:04, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

That's not how Wikipedia works. Please read WP:VERIFIABILITY which states: All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed. Also read WP:USI, WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH and WP:BURDEN. Once again, unsourced information does NOT belong on Wikipedia. CommanderLinx (talk) 18:18, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

R missing

Has anyone noticed that the title of this article is missing an R in the "Norwegian" part? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.182.83.81 (talk) 22:03, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Gudrun Nymoen RIP

According to TV2 and other news media, Gudrun Nymoen dies on 8. July this year. . Not sure how to change this. Oddeivind (talk) 20:15, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

References

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Supercentenarians in the United States which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:49, 1 August 2021 (UTC)