Talk:List of Nuttall mountains in England and Wales

Merge proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was merge to List of Nuttall mountains. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:37, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

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I propose merging List of Nuttall mountains in Wales and List of Nuttall mountains in England into List of Nuttall mountains in England and Wales, overwriting the disambiguation. That was the original page but was subject to an undiscussed split in February 2023. The Nuttall classification comes from Anne and John Nuttall's 1990 two–volume book, The Mountains of England and Wales and no consideration of the fact that it is an England and Wales set was given before the split. It has a practical implication that can be seen at Snowdon. In the lead of that article we now have: is the highest mountain in the British Isles outside the Scottish Highlands but the "highest mountain" wikilink only takes the reader to the list of Welsh mountains. The listing to Nuttall in that page's infobox, meanwhile, takes the reader to the English list, thus not mentioning Snowdon at all. Inasmuch as Nuttalls are a notable set, they are the notable set of the mountains of England and Wales. As such they should be treated together, which would also allow wikilinks on pages about the mountains in the set point to useful encyclopaedic information. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Comment, shouldn't this proposal be at List of Nuttall mountains in England? (or at least a section) That is where most of the original page history is, if calling for a revert of the split? Unless the history from there is to be history merged here? Also you wrote Wales twice.​ DankJae 20:10, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Fixed the wrong link. Thanks for pointing it out. In terms of the merge, the effect of the merge must be that the two child articles become List of Nuttall mountains in England and Wales as it was. However, if the proposal has consensus, we can request technical assistance so that the disambiguation is deleted or moved out of the way for the England article to be moved back as it was (England and Wales) to preserve the edit history. In any case, all redirects will be maintained to preserve history. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Just raising it, so it is clear where the page history is. DankJae 21:25, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy, probably best to also alert WP:BIHILLS? or WP:UKGEO? If you wish. DankJae 21:52, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Good idea. Now done. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:05, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support – Mountain classifications are commonly divided by class first than geographic coverage, so all Nuttalls should be considered together, as done by the original book with the two intentionally together (although under separate chapters) and another source used also states it collectively "England and Wales". Also as well as reverting an undiscussed split, where the split off Welsh list lacks a lot of context. I assume the desired revert is something like this pre-split version (accomodating any edits afterwards). Not setting a precedent against Welsh mountain lists entirely DankJae 21:50, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support - agree with the above. Bduke (talk) 22:10, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Nothing in the sources gives any reason for a split or suggests they ought to be treated as two distinct groups. I also noticed the inadequate lead section on the Wales list, though I guess it would have been difficult to include much detail without also mentioning that there are Nuttalls in the land-which-must-not-be-named. EdwardUK (talk) 23:00, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support the merge, but shouldn't the merged article be named simply List of Nuttall mountains? As I understand it, there are no Nuttall mountains anywhere else (by definition). -- Dr Greg  talk  00:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  I am not opposed to this. It actually makes the merge easier without technical assistance as it can be achieved by moving List of Nuttall mountains in England (which has the primary page history) to List of Nuttall mountains and redirecting the others there. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:44, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  The name change makes sense, and could perhaps be applied to other lists too (Furths, Hewitts, Marilyns). EdwardUK (talk) 13:42, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  Don't oppose the shorter name either, although if comparing to other articles, best do all of them together? for a clearer consensus at least. DankJae 04:05, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support the merge, but agree with Dr Greg, List of Nuttall mountains would be sufficient. Llwyld (talk) 07:27, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support the merge and shortening the name to 'List of Nutall mountains', in whatever way that's achieved behind-the-scenes. A.D.Hope (talk) 12:56, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support the merge / split-reversion. Apart from anything else, Nuttall (hill) needs a sensible target: it now points to the English list, inaccurate if using it to describe a Welsh mountain. PamD 13:05, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.