Talk:List of Rajputs/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 May 2023 (3)

An entire dynasty and its rulers who form a major part of Gujarat and Rajasthan history are simply missing. Kindly add the famous and big rulers of the Chaulukya dynasty which belonged to the Solanki (clan) of Rajputs: Mularaja, Bhima I, Karna (Chaulukya dynasty), Jayasimha Siddharaja, Kumarapala (Chaulukya dynasty), Ajayapala (Chaulukya dynasty), Mularaja II and Bhima II.

Source:

1. Hermann Kulke (2004). A History of India. Psychology Press. p. 117. ISBN 978-0-415-32919-4. When Gurjara Pratiharas power declined after the sacking of Kannauj by the Rashtrakutkas in the early tenth century many Rajput princes declared their independence and founded their own kingdoms, some of which grew to importance in the subsequent two centuries. The better known among these dynasties were the Chaulukyas or Solankis of Kathiawar and Gujarat, the Chahamanas (i.e. Chauhan) of eastern Rajasthan (Ajmer and Jodhpur), and the Tomaras who had founded Delhi (Dhillika) in 736 but had then been displaced by the Chauhans in the twelfth century."

2. Brajadulal Chattopadhyaya (2006). Studying Early India: Archaeology, Texts and Historical Issues. Anthem. p. 116. ISBN 978-1-84331-132-4. The period between the seventh and the twelfth century witnessed gradual rise of a number of new royal-lineages in Rajasthan, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh, which came to constitute a social-political category known as 'Rajput'. Some of the major lineages were the Pratiharas of Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh and adjacent areas, the Guhilas and Chahamanas of Rajasthan, the Caulukyas or Solankis of Gujarat and Rajasthan and the Paramaras of Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan." 103.211.18.43 (talk) 20:37, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

This could be subject to WP:GSCASTE, so seek consensus before making an edit request. DreamRimmer (talk) 11:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Enough resources are attached above which testify that Chaulukya dynasty of Gujarat (also called Solanki dynasty) was a powerful Rajput kingdom from mid-10th to mid-13th century. Kshatriya Yoddha (talk) 05:57, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. DreamRimmer (talk) 08:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Kindly do the needful, all sources are mentioned above and in the reply below. Kshatriya Yoddha (talk) 16:37, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Enough resources are attached above which testify that Chaulukya dynasty of Gujarat (also called Solanki dynasty) was a powerful Rajput kingdom from mid-10th to mid-13th century. Kshatriya Yoddha (talk) 05:56, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: This assertion is not supported by the sources you provided. Please provide accurate and credible references. DreamRimmer (talk) 18:19, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Kindly see the below news sources then:

1. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/voices/naikidevi-chandel-the-battle-of-kayara-and-the-sociomilitary-history-of-godwad/?source=app&frmapp=yes

2. https://www.news9live.com/knowledge/from-chauhan-to-guhila-check-list-of-some-of-the-major-rajput-dynasties-173603

Books:

1. Rajput Clans of Gujarat: Mers, Solanki, Paramara, Vaghela, Rathore, Jadeja, Jethwa, Chapa Dynasty, Sodha, Chudasama, Garasia (https://books.google.co.in/books/about/Rajput_Clans_of_Gujarat.html?id=hxKOSQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y)

2. Rajput Er: Origin of Rajputs, Chandela, Solanki, Mihira Bhoja I, Ranthambore Fort, Dilwara Temples, Sun Temple, Modhera, Bappa Rawal (https://books.google.co.in/books/about/Rajput_Er.html?id=jfHDbwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y)

Others:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnivansha --> the 4 Agnivanshli clans are mentioned as Pratihara, Chauhan, Parmara and Chaulukya (Solanki)

Apart from that, references from standard history textbooks with corresponding lines have already been mentioned in my previous reply. Kshatriya Yoddha (talk) 03:44, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

 Comment: I have seen your request and will respond as soon as I have time. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 01:31, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I found certain books in which the Chalukya dynasty is referred to as a Rajput dynasty.

References

𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 07:54, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

 Already done Mularaja II 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 08:24, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Mularaja, Bhima I, Karna (Chaulukya dynasty), Jayasimha Siddharaja, Kumarapala (Chaulukya dynasty), Ajayapala (Chaulukya dynasty) and Bhima II 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 08:25, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 July 2023

Change:

Authors, biographers, educationalists, and writers

To:

Science, Environment, Education, Authors

• Abdus Salam, a Pakistani theoretical physicist and a Nobel Prize laureate. Kshatriya Yoddha (talk) 09:34, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

References

 Done A very properly done edit request, thank you! I changed the section heading to "Authors, academics, scientists" because I feel that covers educationalists as well. Everything else done exactly as you prescribed. Xan747 (talk) 22:13, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 July 2023

Add under Pakistani politicians and lawyers :

Humza Yousaf, head of the Scottish government

• Humza Yousaf, the First Minister of Scotland and Leader of the Scottish National Party (SNP) since March 2023. Kshatriya Yoddha (talk) 07:06, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:12, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 July 2023 (2)

Add under Historical Figures :

• Panna Dai, 16th-century nursemaid to Udai Singh II who sacrificed her own son's life to save him. Kshatriya Yoddha (talk) 08:16, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Pakistan Armed Forces

7 out of 11 Nishan E Haidar recipients (Pakistan military's highest award) are Rajput (sub-caste like Janjua, Bhatti, Minhas, Rana) and Pakistan's most loved Army Chief - General Raheel Sharif (brother of a great Rajput martyr of the 1971 war) is also a Rajput 182.179.128.111 (talk) 19:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 August 2023

Please add "Pratap Singh Khachariyawas, a politician from Rajasthan" to the "Politicians of postcolonial India" section citing this source.

References

103.48.197.179 (talk) 07:58, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done Article is locked, but I was able to check it. Self-identification present hence passed. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:24, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 August 2023 (3)

Please remove the tag "need quotation to verify" from Sher Singh Rana's entry. In the youtube video citation, he clearly says at 02:00 about his Rajput credentials. MahabaliKhali (talk) 19:02, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 August 2023

Please add Humza Yousaf to the section "Pakistani politicians and lawyers" and use his tweet as citation. MahabaliKhali (talk) 17:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2023

Please remove the "page needed" tag from the entry of Chaudhry Ghulam Abbas. Page No 217 of the cited pdf clearly says that he was born in a Rajput family. MahabaliKhali (talk) 11:52, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Help with edit requests

Pinging @Fylindfotberserk, @No2WesternImperialism, @Abhishek0831996. As you are some of the top editors on this page and have recent editing activity here and other pages, I'm ask you for help with numerous edit requests that the community hasn't been able to resolve in a timely manner. Thank-you for any assistance you can provide. Xan747 (talk) 16:38, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok! No2WesternImperialism (talk) 19:02, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks. Xan747 (talk) 19:08, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Xan747, Done! 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 08:33, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Sweet! Xan747 (talk) 11:36, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@User:No2WesternImperialism: Would you please dispose the existing edit requests? MahabaliKhali (talk) 13:40, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

@User:Xan747: Please help with pending edit requests. MahabaliKhali (talk) 11:59, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 August 2023 (2)

Please add Ramanuj Pratap Singh Deo to the "shooting and hunting" section.

References

MahabaliKhali (talk) 18:46, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@ User:Fylindfotberserk, thanks for your contributions to this page. Please look at this one too. MahabaliKhali (talk) 12:39, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Though you've created this article, I'm not sure about this person's notability. He seems to be only notable (got wide coverage) for being the killer of the last Cheetahs in India. That is, a case of WP:SINGLEEVENT. Pinging other for opinion @Sitush, Fowler&fowler, and Admantine123: - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

You are right, it needs to be merged in any other related page, which is about killing of last Cheetah in India. I would like to vote for its merger, if it is nominated at Afd.-Admantine123 (talk) 13:23, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

True to some extent. But so is Nathuram Godse who would be included in a putative List of Chitapavans. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:38, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

What this gentleman did to the world of Asiatic cheetahs on the subcontinent, with their fabled history, was as cataclysmic as Gandhi’s murder by Godse was to Indian nationalism. My general concern is that these lists of castes have become means of glorifying the respective caste, and don’t like to include those that bring the caste down a notch or two or three or four. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:48, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

He is notable enough. He was the last ruler of a princely state and ruled for around 25 years. He was a well-known hunter. Not only cheetahs, he is believed to have killed 1710 tigers in the central part of India.

References

@User:Fylindfotberserk, would you please dispose this edit request and other pending requests? MahabaliKhali (talk) 18:32, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

•  Done Abhishek0831996 (talk) 04:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2023 (2)

Please search the entry of Vijai Singh Shekhawat in "Indian armed forces" section. The source cited with the entry is good enough. Please remove the "better source needed" tag from this entry. MahabaliKhali (talk) 12:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

•  Done Abhishek0831996 (talk) 15:32, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2023 (4)

Please remove Madhav Singh Solanki from "Politicians of postcolonial India" section. The India Today article which has been used as source is misleading. More recent sources like 1, 2 reveal that he belonged to the Koli caste instead. MahabaliKhali (talk) 18:14, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done Abhishek0831996 (talk) 17:42, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2023 (3)

Please remove the entries of Benazir Bhutto and Shah Nawaz Bhutto from "Pakistani politicians and lawyers" section. The cited sources do not say that they are Rajputs. MahabaliKhali (talk) 12:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

See this. Ameen Akbar (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Deactivating edit request as it's been pending for more than a month and hence it's clear none of the people patrolling this queue are willing to implement it. If some talk pages watcher wants to do so, feel free. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:40, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2023

Kundan A Singh (talk) 17:08, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add sport figure hockey player kd singh babu

 Not done. We need a source that he was a Rajput. MahabaliKhali (talk) 05:25, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

What about Ravana Rajputs?

@Fylindfotberserk can this list include other Ravana Rajputs? I can see Anand Pal Singh's name. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:15, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

@Abhishek0831996: Always wondered about that. It was added here by Ratnahastin, lets ping them. The article used as a source [1] mentions some sort of solidarity and appropriation of his "legacy" by the Rajputs. Excerpts -

The Rajputs also saw in him an answer to the Jat gangsters whose reign Anandpal ended. Jats resent Rajputs for the latter’s historical domination in a region where the Jats are the numerical majority.

His death also sparked a rush to appropriate his legacy with Rajput bodies, who had earlier kept a distance from Anandpal, coming out in solidarity.

- Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:59, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

@Ratnahastin

@No2WesternImperialism

Give your opinions. Should this list include famous Ravana Rajputs? Abhishek0831996 (talk) 12:02, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Pinging @Admantine123, LukeEmily, Sitush, Chariotrider555, and Fowler&fowler: for inputs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:18, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Ravana Rajputs are not considered as Rajputs by Rajput community itself. They are also included in Other Backward Class and i think this case is similar to Lodhi Rajputs. They are not Rajputs, but call themselves Rajputs. Admantine123 (talk) 13:03, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

@Admantine123 A classic example of why all of these lists should be binned - anyone can claim, or be claimed, to be anything. - Sitush (talk) 14:21, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

You are right. Next time if there is a proposal like that, I will favour commenting in support of that Admantine123 (talk) 16:51, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk, @LukeEmily, @Sitush, @Chariotrider555, @Admantine123, @Fowler&fowler

I'm adding the names of father & son, Thakur Hari Singh Shekhawat and Dalpat Singh (soldier) respectively. These people are well respected and owned by the Rajput community therefore I see no problem. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 00:59, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

@Abhishek0831996 Gosh, you had to find some obscure news sources to verify those! It's all rather pathetic & tub-thumping. I'll be glad when all these lists are deleted and their supporters treated with the disdain they deserve.

I'm not even sure that The Free Press Journal is correct in saying that the Military Cross is an extremely rare award, even for officers. My great-uncle was awarded two of the things and the entire point of the MC was that only officers could get it (part-way through WW1, the Military Medal was introduced as an equivalent for "other ranks"/non-officers because too many Crosses were being handed out; MC awardees got a pension but MM awardees didn't). Since Dalpat was an officer, he'd get the Cross by definition. I'd be interested to see proper analysis - not a rubbishy newspaper - that shows MCs were not awarded reasonably proportionately by nationality according to, say, hours served on the front lines. - Sitush (talk) 03:23, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

BTW, I note that the source says Dalpat's MC was awarded posthumously. That wasn't possible - unlike, say the Victoria Cross, it wasn't available to be awarded in that way. - Sitush (talk) 03:54, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

@Sitush, I don't support these lists. I'm improving them till the time they exist. Take a chill pill Abhishek0831996 (talk) 04:15, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

@Abhishek0831996 I'm not surprised that Rajputs want to recognise these two - they're seen as heroes. Much less keen to recognise the numerous criminals, at least for that criminality. But I still think your sourcing is poor - the Free Press Journal is clearly wrong on details and/or badly written - & in fact don't think we should use newspapers at all because Indian media is notorious for copying off each other without much thought, which perpetuates errors. - Sitush (talk) 05:04, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

@Sitush, I'd never shy away from adding criminals too and most probably would do in future. Starting with dacoits and gangsters who have proven criminal records Abhishek0831996 (talk) 07:41, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Why not? The Rajputs, themselves, were once warrior groups outside the caste system that came to the aid of established rulers and thereby underwent caste upliftment in the late 1st millennium CE and early second millennium CE. Why is it the fault of the Ravana Rajputs (and in particular this so-called "gangster") that they appeared too late in the history of India's bogus notions of stratification and ritual purity? Either AfD the List of Rajputs altogether, or add the Ravana Rajputs.

PS I don't know if they trace their heritage to King Ravana, but he was a pundit, so Ravana Rajputs, by the laws of Mendelian genetics, would have a heritage that is both Brahmin and Kshatriya. They should therefore be placed at the very top of the List of Rajputs, standing at step 3 1/2 in the caste ladder, just 1/2 a rung below the priests.

PS2 I'm not sure what Sitush means by "binned," but if it implies "banned," in addition, I'm all for it. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:08, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

@Fowler&fowler binned = deleted (and deprecated for the future). - Sitush (talk) 21:08, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

The word Ravana was used to signal half Rakshasa blood just like Ravan had on his mother's side. I doubt this has anything to do with Brahmins. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 01:23, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Fowler&fowler, the Ravana Rajputs has actually no connection with demon king Ravana. They were the illegitimate children of Rajput rulers with their slave women or their maids. So, from mother side, they were born to some non-Rajput women, who were considered inferior in caste ranking. This is why Rajput community didn't recognise them as a part of their own caste. Admantine123 (talk) 07:42, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Keeping in mind that the Rajput community themselves descended from outcaste warrior communities which became powerful enough for the then upper castes to require their help. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

The case of Anandpal Singh is different from the trend observed in Indian society. Infact, nowadays, we are witnessing reverse of what we call as Sanskritisation. Rajputs later started supporting Anandpal as he became a dreaded gangster and emerged as a challenger to a Jat gangster, the social group, whom they [Rajputs] consider as their rival. Hence, Rajputs of Rajasthan organised caste panchayats and meetings to support Anandpal Singh. It is believed that Singh was assassinated at the behest of then Rajasthan Home minister, who was also from Jat community. I read this years ago, so can't recall names of other characters. We need to keep a tab on the caste and surname articles as nowadays the Rajput community is claiming almost every surname to be their own, right from Yadav to Saini. There are number of websites made by caste groups to present pseudo historical facts as real history. Admantine123 (talk) 16:51, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

I say that if high quality academic sources state he is a Rajput, then he can be included on the list. In fact, I think this should be extended generally to all caste identifications, that only high quality academic sources should be used to identify individuals with a particular caste. With a topic as contentious as South Asian social groups (WP:CASTE), only the high-tier sources should be used to verify content, of which I do not think news articles would fall under. I do not believe all caste lists need to necessarily be deleted, as long as reliable sources (in this case academic) are present a person can be included on a list.

Another idea is to split the List of Caste X articles up in the cases were Caste X is not really one caste but rather a group of pan-jati groups where there is debate (attested in reliable academic sources) that certain groups do or do not fall under a particular group identity, so that members of the list belong to a group with more coherent and cohesive identity group. At the end of the day social sciences has less objective truth than other disciplines. Chariotrider555 (talk) 06:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Ravana Rajput is a distinct caste from Rajput, and the two have no connection to each other. Therefore, it should not be included in this list. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 14:34, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

@Abhishek0831996, Please remove Dalpat Singh's name that you added in the British Indian military people section. The source provided for this addition is from The Free Press Journal, which is considered unreliable since it was published by FPJ Web Desk without a specific author. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 15:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

This particular statement by User:DreamRimmer – "the two have no connection to each other" - is factually incorrect. It is fact that they are paternally of Rajput ancestry. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:07, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

@Sitush, @DreamRimmer Source provided will be improved soon. No need for removal Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:29, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Ravana Rajput is classified as an OBC (Other Backward Class) caste, while Rajput belongs to the General category. Although their categorization may vary between states, these are two distinct castes. Some sources mistakenly label Ravana Rajput as Rajput because of the similarity in their names. Since this list is focused on Rajput individuals, it might not be appropriate to include Ravana Rajputs. Are there any reliable sources that describe these two castes as being the same? 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 16:48, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 December 2023

This list of personalities from from Rajput community contains list of criminals also.

Please remove the names of criminals from this list of Rajputs. Criminals does not belong to any community. Adding them in the list of prominent Rajput serves no purpose and only depict a negative picture of the community. Abhimanyu200 (talk) 14:21, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't censor content. Notable people (famous or infamous) are added in these kind of lists. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)