Talk:List of Station 19 episodes

Splitting proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to split into season articles per MOS:TVSPLIT as long as such articles meet WP:GNG and WP:TVSERIES. Pallettown (talk) 00:42, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

---

I propose that seasons 2-6 should be split into their own articles as per WP:SIZESPLIT and Wikipedia:Article_splitting_(television). The season article episode lists can be transcluded to the list article. Drafts have been created at:

Draft:Station 19 (season 2)

Draft:Station 19 (season 3)

Draft:Station 19 (season 4)

Draft:Station 19 (season 5)

Draft:Station 19 (season 6)

@YoungForever, Zsoca28, and Lonniemitchell22:

Pallettown (talk) 18:05, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that if they fail WP:GNG and WP:TVSERIES then, they are not enough to split into season articles. Having just an episode table and ratings table are not enough to split into season articles. — YoungForever^(talk) 22:22, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

If the drafts pass WP:GNG and WP:TVSERIES when they are reviewed, would you be opposed to the split? Draft:Station 19 (season 5) was declined because a discussion was requested. -- Pallettown (talk) 21:04, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

As said above, Having just an episode table and ratings table are not enough to split into season articles. — YoungForever^(talk) 00:14, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Per MOS:TV, it seems splits are less focused on meeting GNG and more focused on limiting the main list's length: For very lengthy series, generally 80+ episodes, it may be necessary to break the episode list into individual season or story arc lists ... They may contain some awards or a reception section, but they are generally a list of information pertaining to that respective season. If this is done, the main list of episodes should still contain the entire episode list, appropriately sectioned, without the episode summaries. In other words, it's about restructuring existing pages. I think we're at the point here where a split is warranted. RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:05, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Did you read WP:NTV? I am positive that season articles need to pass WP:GNG and WP:TVSERIES based on the WP:TV consensus. If you think WP:GNG and WP:TVSERIES do not apply to season articles, you are sadly mistaken. A season article needs to be able be standalone. WP:NTV exists because some editors think every TV series should season articles even when they only contain an episode table with episode summaries and ratings table, but no Production info nor Critical reception. — YoungForever^(talk) 05:21, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

MOS:TV is a guideline; NTV is an essay that did not pass an RFC to become a guideline. The MOS therefore holds more weight to me. If you think different guidelines are needed to determine when article splits occur, the MOS needs to be updated. RunningTiger123 (talk) 16:09, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Pallettown and RunningTiger123: Also, per Wikipedia:Article splitting (television), There should always be real world content to accompany any additional split that is not simply a duplication of the main page's content (e.g., reception specifically for that season, or that episode; production information for the season or the episode), or duplication of the season page's content (e.g., an episode article that contains 1 or 2 reviews, and used the overall production information about the season that is not specific to any one episode). This is because notability is not inherited from a parent article, and all articles must stand on their own. — YoungForever^(talk) 18:20, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

First, that's an essay written almost entirely by one user, not a guideline. Second, there is season-specific real-world information provided in regard to renewals, casting changes, etc. And third, that very essay suggests splitting the article at approximately 70 to 80 episodes, which this show has passed. (That last point somewhat contradicts the quote you provided, but I guess that just shows why essays aren't as useful as community-developed guidelines.)

Also, a point I realized after my last comment in regards to NTV: A lot of the discussion that led to that essay was due to articles for individual episodes, not seasons. When NTV and Wikipedia:Article splitting (television) discourage splits, it's typically at the episode level. I couldn't actually find anything at NTV that talks about when to split episode lists by season, so I don't see how that's even relevant here. RunningTiger123 (talk) 18:45, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

WP:TVSERIES is about Television pilots, future series or seasons, and unreleased series. Also, There should always be real world content to accompany any additional split that is not simply a duplication of the main page's content (e.g., reception specifically for that season, or that episode; production information for the season or the episode), or duplication of the season page's content (e.g., an episode article that contains 1 or 2 reviews, and used the overall production information about the season that is not specific to any one episode). This is because notability is not inherited from a parent article, and all articles must stand on their own. is on MOS:TV FYI under MOS:TVSPLIT. — YoungForever^(talk) 19:05, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

My mistake for missing TVSPLIT – that's definitely in there. But it looks like the MOS contradicts itself in that case? The more I read it, the more problems arise. To quote from MOS:TV#Multiple pages again:

For very lengthy series, generally 80+ episodes, it may be necessary to break the episode list into individual season or story arc lists. These lists are often the first stepping stone for season articles, but generally lack the amount of real world information (e.g. production, themes, etc.) that a season article has. They may contain some awards or a reception section, but they are generally a list of information pertaining to that respective season.

Here, the first sentence starts by promoting individual season articles split from a "List of X episodes" article, but if we follow that, we don't follow TVSPLIT. (And the next line says those articles are stepping stones for themselves? I feel like editors made changes without realizing what the actual topic of the section was.) Maybe we need to cut one of the two conflicting sections out of the MOS. RunningTiger123 (talk) 19:41, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

But, the second sentence talks about season article containing real world information (e.g. production, themes, etc.. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:26, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

That's why I'm confused — it says a season article may not have information that a season article has, which is illogical. The wording is all messed up and I think different editors have blended different viewpoints. RunningTiger123 (talk) 22:48, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

List of episodes articles are the ones that generally lack the amount of real world information (e.g. production, themes, etc.) and the sentence is referring to. — YoungForever^(talk) 00:08, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I can't provide any additional links to guidelines or essays that haven't already been provided, but just from my experience across the general standard across TV articles YoungFoever is correct. It shouldn't happen here for quite some time, but if this article ever becomes so large that it can't contain the episode and ratings tables, the list will just be split and disambiguated. You can see examples at Lists of Doctor Who episodes, Lists of Big Brother (American TV series) episodes, and List of The Simpsons episodes. Until then, they should remain here unless there is a significant amount of real-world information that can be included in a season article. You can see examples of what solid season article should look like at Grey's Anatomy (season 17) or Cobra Kai (season 3). If you split at their current state, without such information, it's just a clear-cut case of WP:SPINOUT. TheDoctorWho (talk) 06:01, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I am not asking whether the article should be split into multiple lists of episodes like Doctor Who or The Simpsons. Perhaps splitting is the wrong term?

Because of the size of this article (and following MOS:TVSPLIT):

1. I am asking if the drafts are sufficient for season articles to be moved to mainspace.

2. If they are sufficient, should the episode and ratings tables be moved to the season articles and transcluded back to this article.

User:YoungForever is correct in that the season articles should pass WP:GNG and WP:TVSERIES. I am simply seeking consensus as instructed after Draft:Station 19 (season 5) was declined by Wikipedia:Articles for creation. -- Pallettown (talk) 07:33, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Station 19 (season 2), Station 19 (season 3), and Station 19 (season 4) have been accepted for Wikipedia:Articles for creation and have been moved to mainspace. If there are no objections, I will move the episode tables for those seasons to the season articles, and transclude the tables back to the list article. -- Pallettown (talk) 02:54, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.