Talk:List of U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School alumni

Assessment

Graded B are you going to work on the red links and create articles for them ? Jim Sweeney (talk) 08:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the assessment. Yes, I will work on the red links. It seems odd that the MOL astronaut-selectees don't have articles already. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Eliminated one red link by adding article on Richard E. Lawyer. Skeet Shooter (talk) 13:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I have seen the comments on the Wikipedia:Featured list candidates you are doing a good job well done Jim Sweeney (talk) 14:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Jim. I do appreciate all the time people take to provide such constructive comments. I'm very impressed with the review process on Wiki. Skeet Shooter (talk) 03:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Missed Michael Fossum, and he's in orbit right now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitch402 (talk • contribs) 00:08, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out Michael Fossum. I added him. Skeet Shooter (talk) 21:28, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Address Remaining Comments from Featured List Nomination

The Featured List nomination closed before I could address all the comments. The remaining comments are listed below with their disposition. Skeet Shooter (talk) 13:19, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

The archived discussion of the original nomination is located at: Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/Failed_log/August_2008#List_of_USAF_Test_Pilot_School_alumni

Resolved comments from Kumioko (talk) 02:03, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Comments from Kumioko

• Some of the list rows have refeences and some don't, recommend adding inline citations for the rest.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 14:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Matthew Edwards (talk • contribs • email) 17:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments from Matthew Edwards

• Perhaps it could be mentioned that there is a test pilot school for the navy?

 Done. Mentioned in the lead when describing exchange programs with other test pilot schools. Skeet Shooter (talk) 14:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• Ref [10] say "On date September 27, 1956" Is this when it was written?

 Done. To indicate no page numbers are available for reference, text now states "No page numbers in this document; See date of September 27, 1956". Skeet Shooter (talk) 14:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• Ref [14] has no page number

 Done. Intent was to reference the entire book so I changed the text to read, "The Fastest Man Alive, all". Skeet Shooter (talk) 15:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

 Not done. After additional research and based on WP:CITE#HOW, I removed "pages = all" when referencing an entire book. Skeet Shooter (talk) 13:19, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Page numbers within a book or article are not required when a citation is for a general description of a book or article

• Try to use {{cite web}} and its equivalents

 Done. Replaced all references. Skeet Shooter (talk) 15:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• If each entry is notable, each entry should have a reference

 Done. Added references to each. Skeet Shooter (talk) 19:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• If you do that, then I think a ref column would be a good addition

 Done. I added the reference to each entry in the "Notable Events" column which already acted as a ref column. Skeet Shooter (talk) 15:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• You could link to Mojave Desert, Southern California or Kern County, just to provide a little more context to readers.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 16:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• Could you change "CA" to "California" in the image caption, please?

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 16:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• With regards to 60A, being the first class in 1960 - is this how the School has named its classes, or is it how you've put it together? If it's the latter, it's WP:OR. I'm just concerned because it's the only one without a reference.

 Done. This is how the school names its classes. I added a reference from the Course Catalog. Skeet Shooter (talk) 19:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 16:14, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments from Rambling Man

• I'd like to see (AFB) after Air Force Base so non-experts know what AFB is on subsequent use.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 16:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

• I think the lead could be expanded - WP:LEAD would suggest at least two paras.

 Done. Added info on school's history. Skeet Shooter (talk) 00:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• "twenty-six " = 26

 Not done. Since the sentence begins with a spelled-out number ("Thirty-seven TPS graduates..."), I spelled out the second use also per MOS:

Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures: we may write either 5 cats and 32 dogs or five cats and thirty-two dogs, not five cats and 32 dogs. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• I would link NASA in the lead.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• Because this doesn't contain all alumni, there ought to be a statement of scope.

 Done. The article states, "(TPS) graduated the following notable alumni who made significant contributions to the aerospace field." I also added a footnote indicating "notable" as defined by WP:BIO and WP:MILMOS#NOTE. Does this meet the intent of your comment? Skeet Shooter (talk) 03:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

• Borman's caption shouldn't end with a full stop. MOS says if one complete sentence in a caption then all sentences, including fragments, should have full stops so check the other captions.

 Done. I don't think any of the captions are full sentences, so I removed the full stops. Skeet Shooter (talk) 13:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

• "First female pilot and first female commander of a Space Shuttle" reads a little odd, could be taken she was the first female pilot and then the first female commander of a space shuttle - i guess you mean she was the first female pilot and then commander of a space shuttle? Also her entry in the table doesn't mention her being the first female commander.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 22:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

• I don't like blank cells - perhaps civilian ranks could have an em-dash (with appropriate key) to indicate that they didn't have a rank.

 Done. Added "n/a" to blank cells to indicate rank is not applicable.

• James M. Taylor has no article, seems a shame, not even a stub if he's notable enough to be on this list? And the other two...

 Not done - Yet. I will work on the missing articles though I hope three red links won't result in an "oppose". WP:WIAFL does permit "a minimal proportion of red links". The individuals with missing articles are all astronaut selectees which appears to fit Wiki notability. I did complete one missing article for Richard E. Lawyer during the first FLC period. Skeet Shooter (talk) 23:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

• Oh, and rank - does that mean current rank or rank when they left their respective force? Perhaps some of these alumni are still employed and their rank could change?

 Done. Added key to explain rank column. Skeet Shooter (talk) 00:10, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• What does "(Faith 7)" mean?

 Done. That was the name of the Mercury 9 capsule. I deleted it for consistency with the other entries. Skeet Shooter (talk) 00:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• With lists which have two or more tables with identical columns, I'd prefer to see them made the same width from table to table.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 02:11, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• "BGen. Robert Cardenas, USAF. YB-49 flying wing" - he wasn't a YB-49, presumably he was a test pilot for that platform?

 Done. I had to look that up to be sure, but you are correct :-) He was the chief USAF test pilot. Skeet Shooter (talk) 02:11, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• Bong, is he best ace ever? I'm not sure. I think his picture is probably more appropriate here, as well.

 Not done. With 40 kills, Bong is the highest scoring American ace of all time, and the list does include this "United States" qualifier. But he is a long way from the 352 kills credited to Germany's Erich Hartmann. Although Bong was a very successful fighter pilot, he was not as notable a test pilot as others in this list so I did not use his photo. Skeet Shooter (talk) 02:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• With the heading "pioneers" - I'd definitely talk about this in the lead, what you mean by that and who's included.

 Done. Added description of roles for which alumni are notable. Skeet Shooter (talk) 04:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• Not clear why your first, third and fourth references are in bold.

 Done. The bolding was caused by my use of the {{cite book}} example at WP:CITEQR which shows three quote marks around the title:

 | title = '''REQUIRED''' 

I deleted the three quotes in my references. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• Instead of "pages", "pp." will do.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• What exactly is AWOH?

 Done. Aerospace Walk of Honor now spelled out. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• "pages 207-208." - "pp. 207–8"

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• "482 mph " convert this for our metric friends

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 18:06, 15 August 2008 (UTC).

• NASM should be expanded.

 Done. Skeet Shooter (talk) 12:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

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Are Instructors Considered Alumni?

Are instructors who did not attend an institution still considered alumni? An editor added Daniel R. Wiley to this article. Wiley did not attend USAF TPS as a student, but he did teach there for a number of years. If Wiley is added, other non-attendees, such as commandant Buzz Aldrin, should be included also. The Wiki article on alumnus states, "The term is sometimes used to refer to a former employee or member of an organization", which to me implies instructors/commanders can be included. Skeet Shooter (talk) 13:10, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I updated the article to state school faculty are included as alumni. Also added references to support Daniel Wiley’s fly-by-wire work at Wright Field. Skeet Shooter (talk) 01:26, 28 January 2021 (UTC)