Talk:List of United States hurricanes

Proposed renaming

Hi. Please share your views on possible renaming of this article and its sub-articles here. Thanks. Rehman⁽⁺⁾ 02:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

• archive link for anyone curious about excavating this discussion Colin M (talk) 19:41, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Criteria

The source being used for this list does not include Alabama as a victim of Georges, despite the fact that the neighbors on either side are included. The only death in the U.S. from this hurricane occurred in Alabama, and there was signficant damage. In fact, in the storms in the last 35 years, this hurricane probably makes Alabama's top 5. Whatever the criteria for deciding what hurricanes affected what states are, I think this needs to be re-examined. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.17.114.142 (talk) 01:29, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The criteria is simple: it needs to produce hurricane-force winds over that state while a tropical cyclone (either directly measured or analyzed by data). In the case of Georges, no part of Alabama had winds over tropical storm force. Florida is included because it hit the Keys - not the Panhandle - as a Category 2. CrazyC83 (talk) 23:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

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Missing US territories

The article is titled "List of United States hurricanes", but the United States of America consists of more than just the 50 states: it includes Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, and American Samoa. I suggest that this article either be renamed, or be improved to also include hurricanes that have affected US territories. Minilek 02:57am, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

@Minilek and Minilek: I know this is an extremely late reply, but I agree that this issue must be addressed. (talk) 16:21, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

@Minilek: and @Howpper: I agree. The biggest problem with this is that since each of those territories is an island, and the distance that hurricane-force winds extend outward can vary substantially depending on the storm, it will be difficult to find out which systems actually produced hurricane-force winds on any particular island(s). I suggest that we use https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/news/historical-hurricanes/ to add these storms. There is an option on the map to filter the results for which storms hit the islands. I'm thinking that we should limit to ≥Category 1 systems that pass within a 50 mile radius of each island. We would also have to change the article title to List of United States tropical cyclones since typhoons affect Guam and the NMI and cyclones affect American Samoa. What do you think? Undescribed (talk) 23:26, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I don’t think the title has to be changed. The naming discrepancy for Guam/NMI and American Samoa can be mentioned in the lead. The trickier part will be documenting each storm for the territories. Are we including Palmyra Atoll? Johnston Atoll? Or just the main territories? When I made this article, it was intended for the 50+DC. I’m not opposed to adding PR, GUAM/NMI, or AS, I just want to make sure we add them while keeping the article at WP:featured list standards. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 01:25, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink mobile: That's a good point, the title doesn't necessarily need to change, especially since the vast majority of storms listed in the article are hurricanes. I also thought about adding in all U.S. territories, including those that are unincorporated/unorganized, but that is where things start getting tricky, because we would have to include: American Samoa, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, United States Virgin Islands, Bajo Nuevo Bank (administered by Colombia), Baker Island, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Midway Atoll, Navassa Island (disputed with Haiti), Palmyra Atoll, Serranilla Bank (administered by Colombia), and Wake Island. Although, some of these island may have few, if any hurricane strikes. Based on a quick search that I did, Puerto Rico, USVI, Guam, and NMI are going to be the most difficult, with at least 20 systems of ≥Category 1 strength. Personally I think that it would be a bit excessive to include all of these. Undescribed (talk) 16:23, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

If we limit it to populated territories (which is reasonable), then we’re down to the main 5 - Puerto Rico, VI, Guam, NMI, and AS, which is doable, but sourcing could be tricky. Even if we limit it to storms passing within 50 miles, there’s no guarantee that a storm produced hurricane force winds in the territory. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 17:53, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

I've started with Puerto Rico and USVI hurricanes and went back to 1979, when sourcing starts to get a bit dicey. I've hit a few stumbles already. Hurricane Irene intensified into a hurricane over Puerto Rico, but there are no hurricane-force winds in the territory, as far as I can tell. Also, Hurricane Marilyn likely produced hurricane force winds on Vieques, so anyone researching Puerto Rico needs to be aware of its tiny islands (just like our earlier discussion covered random U.S. territories you may not have heard of). Last, it appears Hurricane David produced hurricane-force winds in Puerto Rico, but I need a better ref than this for a featured list. There is a document of historic Puerto Rico hurricanes, so if anyone can work on this (or I will later), we just need to get back to the 1960s, then citing will be easier. Also, considering how many important storms that aren't in this article, I propose a new article be created: List of United States tropical storms. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:26, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: I agree that we should definitely stick with the five most populated US territories. For instances such as the one where Irene became a hurricane over PR, I would think that it would be a given that it produced hurricane-force winds at some location on the island, even if it wasn't officially recorded by any instruments. The same goes for any system that actually made landfall on any particular islands; for these storms as long as we can provide a source confirming a landfall, that should be enough. As for instances such as the one you mentioned with PR and Vieques, we could always just add a note specifying that hurricane-force winds were confined exclusively to that area.

The one part of your statement that confuses me is where you mentioned that we should create an entirely new article called List of United States tropical storms. Wouldn't it be kind of redundant to this present article? I did suggest changing this article title to a similar one List of United States tropical cyclones. Even if we created a new article on exclusively tropical storm-strength systems affecting the United States and its five territories, I can imagine that that would be an exceptionally long list, far longer than this one. Undescribed (talk) 02:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes it would be a long list, but it would be a useful one, having storms like Tropical Storm Allison, Lee 11, etc in the same list. I also wonder if this list should include damage or deaths, but that’s probably for a different discussion. As for assuming hurricane force winds in the event of a landfall, don’t be so sure. @Cyclonebiskit: could explain better than me, but Irene could have produced Hurricane force winds over water, even though its center was over land. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 13:09, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

We certainly could add damage or deaths, however, the way that the column template is set up in this article would definitely make it complicated; its certainly doable though. The part about Irene only producing hurricane-force winds over water seems pretty complicated. Do we have to prove for every single storm on this list that each one produced hurricane-force winds specifically over land? It seems to be an almost impossible task, especially for storms affecting U.S. territories, which are not included in the NHC's 1851-2012 list. Undescribed (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: As you can see, I have added what seems to be all or most of the ≥Category 1 systems for AS, Guam, and the NMI, dating back to 1960. I also found a source coming directly from the NHC, saying that David may have produced hurricane-force winds on Puerto Rico, if that helps.--Undescribed (talk) 04:25, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Great work! This is already more than we have anywhere else on Wikipedia for Puerto Rico, USVI, Guam/NMI, and American Samoa storms. Adding damage/disaster for each state would be very useful, but a lot for sourcing. Long term goal, perhaps. I also think we should have the storms in one singular column. Easier to navigate/sort. That was perhaps a bad idea when I first made this article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:33, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

All known hurricanes that have struck US territories have now been incorporated into the main article. Undescribed (talk) 05:25, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Awesome work! Wikipedia is much better off with your edits. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 13:44, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Because of that the chart contains data that is comparing apples to oranges. The historical record regarding island hurricane strikes pre-1950, before the current tracking and naming of storms is not at the same standard as the record of the US mainland.

Regarding the Northern Marianas Islands (relevant now thanks to Yutu), they have been administered by the US since 1947, but de facto since the US took them over from Japan in 1944. I'd hate to ask you to do more work, but in the interest of comprehensiveness, it would be nice if CNMI could be extended back to 1947 (or 1944). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Impact

A few notes about this section in the main article:

A count of 22 ("out of the 30 costliest Atlantic hurricanes") is in disagreement with the reference. I do not believe any similar count is stated explicitly in the reference but it is simple enough to count the small numbers involved in the tables now referenced in the article.

There are multiple issues with the Journalist's Resource reference (link to reference). It is secondary to a primary (link to primary source) given in the secondary itself. The secondary makes statements that are very different than the statements in the primary and it severely cherry picks.

• The secondary states that "No other 20-year period has more than 3 top 30 storms" when the primary states "No other 2-year period has ...".
• The secondary states that "the preceding periods of 1976-1985 and 1986-1995 were 'anomalously benign,'" while the primary states "how anomalously benign the 1970s and 1980s were in comparison to the rest of the record". The secondary gives the impression of a forward going downward trend, while the primary clearly says "in comparison to the rest of the record" comparing forward and backward. The secondary says "1976-1985 and 1986-1995" instead of "1970s and 1980s" apparently to support their added phrase "the preceding periods", which is, honestly, rather strange and, actually, unnecessary, apparently to also add to the impression of a foward going downward trend. The entry does end with "since 1900" which gives some context, but if context was the desired effect why not make the entire entry accurate, with the clearer context given in the primary.
• The secondary says "The decade 1996–2005 has the second most damage" leaving out the remainder of the sentence in the primary, which is "among the past 11 decades, with only the decade 1926–1935 surpassing its costs."
• The secondary states "Adjusted for inflation, population, and wealth, hurricane-related damages steadily increased from 1900 to 2005." The primary states "The two normalized data sets reported here show no trends". Not only does the data not show the trend stated, the secondary itself flat out states that it does not.

There is a more recent study that is very similar to the primary one mentioned above, and has one contributor in common with it, Roger Pielke Jr. (link to 1900 to 2017 study). I do not have the time right now, nor may I for a while, to add content to the Wikipedia article based on the more recent study. Anybody is welcome to try to make an objective contribution using it.

Jay Jor (talk) 18:58, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

The hurricanes should all be listed in a single sortable table

The separate tables for states should be merged into a single table sortable by state name, category, date, dollar amount of damage, amount of federal emergency spending, etc. Please discuss.CountMacula (talk) 21:19, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

That is a fair idea, but I had other thoughts about each individual state. I have been considering what this article should look like (since working on Draft:Tropical cyclone effects by region). I think we should have a summary for each state. It's nice having the table for each state, but I think we should also include the costliest/deadliest/strongest storm in each state. We should also go beyond just hurricane status, and mention the most significant TC effects for each state. Some could be combined, like Washington and Oregon both having their highest rainfall from Ignacio 97, Olivia 82 being the wettest in Idaho and Utah, Javier 04 being the wettest in ND and WY, Lester 92 being the wettest in CO, SD, and MN. Other states with more substantial impacts (like Ike 08 in Ohio) will get more of a mention. IDK if we should mention every state, or go by region. This article covers the coastal states really well (and wherever there were actual hurricanes), but a longtime concern of mine has been the non-hurricanes in the US. Georgia should mention Alberto 94 being the wettest storm, even though it was only a TS. Just some thoughts. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Major hurricanes

Should we have a separate section that lists hurricanes that made landfall as a cat-3 or higher? Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:40, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Adding major hurricane list, or adding new impact table? (moved from Wikiproject talk page)

Why hasn’t anyone thought of making a list of major (cat 3+) hurricane landfalls in the United States?

My proposed list would ONLY include storms that were cat 3+ at the time of landfall (eg: Ian) and in a separate list (in the same article) storms that were close enough to the US to bring major hurricane conditions even if a direct landfall was avoided (eg: Matthew). It would NOT include hurricanes that were at one point cat 3+ but did not make landfall/impact as a cat 3+ (eg: Beryl). Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 12:25, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

I like the idea but you would have to include systems such as Val 91, Paka and Yutu which came close enough to the "United States" to cause major hurricane conditions, but were not officially classified on the SSHWS.Jason Rees (talk) 13:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Too similar to List of United States hurricanes IMO. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 18:11, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Is there any way we can add a section (on the list of United States hurricanes) that solely singles out major hurricane landfalls then? Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 19:21, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I moved the discussion to this talk page. Yes, we could have a section for major hurricane landfalls, but that would exclude storms like Sandy and Ike, while including Idalia. But if we're going to add something, I think we should add something bigger that's been missing for a while. There should be a landfall table for each category, kind of like what we have in List of Category 5 Atlantic hurricanes, only I think it should also include the damage and deaths, all of which would be sortable. That would list the landfalls by each category, especially if a storm happens to make multiple landfalls, like Hurricane Georges, which hit Puerto Rico as a major hurricane, and then Florida/Mississippi as a Cat 2. I think it makes sense to have all of the US impacts listed cumulatively, and sortable. It might be a big project to add to this article, but I think it would be a great addition. Hurricane Clyde (talk · contribs) and Jason Rees (talk · contribs), what do you think? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:42, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

You’re lucky I had subscribed to that topic; because I never got the ping. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I do support the idea though @Hurricanehink. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I’d say if we’re going by category; we should start with the category 5’s first and work our way down. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

And if we're including impacts, we should have references for everything too. I suggest we do it on the talk page, so I started the table below. I immediately ran into a problem finding a good damage total for the 1935 Labor Day hurricane. Every source says "at least $6 million", while Wikipedia says "$100 million" without any basis, ugh. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink, It’s possible the Wikipedia entry of $100 million could have been the amount after being adjusted for inflation. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink, if we’re adding territories; we should also add Guam and Puerto Rico areas too. Using SSHWS equivalent in Guam. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 04:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

But the table does generally address what I had in mind. It actually in my opinion is better than what I had in mind. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 04:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I’ll need help with the table because visual editor won’t work and I’m not very good with tables in source mode. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 04:44, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps, although the inflated figure would be more like $134 million. Either way, does the table address what you had in mind about highlighting the stronger landfalls? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk)

Puerto Rico is already included (you can see it under Jeanne). Also, have you ever tried editing in source mode? It's not that difficult when you break it down. Here's Katrina:

| [[Hurricane Katrina|Katrina]] || 2005 || || || [[Louisiana]], [[Mississippi]] || || [[Florida]] || || || {{ntsp|125000000000||$}} || {{nts|1200}} ||

It starts with a bracket, then the storm name as a Wikilink. Easy so far? Then the year. The next part is a column for each SSHS category, with only landfalls listed. Then the damage, listed with a formatting code to keep it organized, followed by the number written out in numbers (zeroes, not billion). Then the same thing for the number of deaths. And then at the end include the reference. It seems like a lot, and there's a little bit of coding, but none of the information is difficult to find. It's just gonna take some time to do this all, and I don't think I'll be to do it all personally. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Since it’s all being grouped together; I’m trying to get the most recent ones (that haven’t already been listed) and working my way from there. Except of course the 2024’s; they won’t release the TCRs until next spring. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 00:55, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Pretty good job with adding them, Hurricane Clyde (talk · contribs), but you need to make sure you include the correct totals. For Laura, I have no idea where you got those totals, but the total deaths in the US was 41, not 81. I think you included all of the Caribbean deaths, but Haiti and Dominican Republic aren't part of the US. Similar issue with Ida. I think you did the damage total ($75.3 billion) and also included Cuba's damage there. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

That’s very possible; because I just put our entry as a placeholder. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

So it’s wherever we got the damage total that ended up on Hurricane Laura Wikipedia page. I can always refine the total after; I’ve just been putting those in as a placeholder that way I can quickly save without ruining the chart or causing an edit conflict. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I had a feeling, but you need to use what's in the source. Even our own entry specifies how much of the damage/death were in the US. Thanks though for attempting to add to this. It'll be a long effort, I just want to make sure it's done the right way (since this is already a featured list). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I had to lower Laura’s total a little more because the NHC specified “around $19 billion in damage in the United States”. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:11, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Next time I’ll probably just leave that part blank or set it at zero and then add it in a subsequent edit; because I’m also trying to avoid an edit conflict too. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

No need to leave it blank, you're getting the hang of it! Also, I'm not editing the table, so you shouldn't have to worry about an edit conflict. As for Laura, I see where the higher damage total came from. NCEI lists Laura's damage total as $23.2 billion. Seeing as that's a more recent source than the TCR, then we can cite that for the damage and deaths. Sometimes the TCR is the best source, but it's not always updated with the latest and best numbers. I also see this source from NCEI which has an updated list of damage totals as of September 10th of this year (which includes Beryl). If you'd like, I can update the damage totals, or you can try it, using the damage list from NCEI from last month. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Table

Name	Year	Category 5	Category 4	Category 3	Category 2	Category 1	Tropical or subtropical storm	Tropical or subtropical depression	Damage (USD)	Deaths	Refs
"Unnamed"	1919		Dry Tortugas	South Texas					$20 million	600
"Labor Day"	1935	Florida Keys			Northwest Florida				$6 million	408
Camille	1969	Mississippi							$1.43 billion	256
Frederic	1979		Alabama						$2.31 billion	5
Tusi	1987			American Samoa						0
Val	1991			American Samoa					$100 million	4
Andrew	1992	Florida		Louisiana					$26.5 billion	61
Charley	2004		South Florida			South Carolina			$15.1 billion	25
Ivan	2004			Alabama				Louisiana	$18.8 billion	57
Jeanne	2004			South Florida			Puerto Rico		$7.66 billion	11
Dennis	2005			Florida panhandle					$2.55 billion	15
Katrina	2005			Louisiana, Mississippi		Florida			$125 billion	1,200
Rita	2005			Louisiana					$12 billion	115
Wilma	2005			South Florida					$20.6 billion	30
Harvey	2017		Texas				Southwest Louisiana		$125 billion	68
Irma	2017		Florida Keys	South Florida					$50 billion	10
Maria	2017		Puerto Rico						$90 billion	2,975
Michael	2018	Florida panhandle							$25 billion	59
Laura	2020		Southwest Louisiana						$19 billion	41
Zeta	2020			Louisiana					$4.4 billion	5
Ida	2021		Louisiana						$75 billion	87
Ian	2022		Southwest Florida			South Carolina			$113 billion	156
Idalia	2023			Florida Big Bend					$3.6 billion	12
Helene	2024		Florida Big Bend						$87.9 billion	227
Milton	2024			Tampa Bay area					$85 billion	35