Talk:List of United States politicians who have acknowledged cannabis use

Definition of "cannabis use"

According to the pre-criminalization section of this article, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin grew or used hemp for industrial purposes. I think it is important that this list distinguish hemp from cannabis/marijuana and industrial purposes from recreational use. --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Should the list be called "List of American politicians who admit to recreational cannabis use", or is it also worth including politicians who used hemp/cannabis for industrial purposes. I am torn. Including industrial use emphasizes the many uses of the plant, but it seems confusing to combine recreational use with industrial use. --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:25, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, I think it would be good to include both industrial and recreational tables in this article. Like List of recessions in the United States, which includes "early" recessions and post-Great Depression recessions, I think this list could contain pre-prohibition and post-prohibition tables or hemp and recreational use tables. Certainly the lead needs to point out that politicians like Washington, Jefferson and Franklin grew hemp for industrial reasons, which is not only factual in that it IS American politicians using cannabis, but it illustrates the multiple uses of the plant. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

That would be interesting. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:00, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Just completed a major expansion. Any thoughts? I will likely obtain a peer review in the near future, but your feedback is appreciated, if interested. --Another Believer _(Talk) 00:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

First time user... My only complaint/note is that growing (ie: having others grow and sell for you) does not = using. Also, if "hemp" is included in Cannabis, that means any founder/framer who handled a rope probably "used" cannabis industrially. Not really a useful list. What makes this interesting is the use of what is now an illegal substance - that is "getting high". This is useful for research, advocacy etc. Starting a list of anyone with a hemp farm, and one of the sources says it was a legal requirement in VA, isn't the same as "use." Oh, and I guess another part of that, most of the industrial users are not "admitting" so in the reference. The reference makes the claim. --Stryker18 (talk) 17:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Except that the relationship between cannabis, regardless of how it is being used, and the United States has an interesting history. Hemp remains illegal today, just like marijuana, so I think the growing of hemp is equally as 'wrong' as "getting high" as far as this list is concerned. Yes, it is true that hemp was common during colonial times, but consumption of marijuana was common at the turn of the 20th century for medicinal purposes. The whole point of this list is to illustrate how policy has shifted over time, and how American politicians have used cannabis throughout the history of the nation. --Another Believer _(Talk) 01:02, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

George W. Bush

This article mentions a video tape of Bush talking about past marijuana use, but I have not added him to the list as I cannot find a source where he himself has admitted to previous use (though there are many articles that hint at previous use and his avoidance of answering questions specifically). This list shouldn't contain accusations or rumors, but only admissions. --Another Believer _(Talk) 22:44, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

"Bush admits to smoking pot in taped discussion." That's not an accusation or rumor, but an admission disclosed by the Associated Press in 2005 and never denied by Bush. The tape was obtained by the New York Times in 2005. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 01:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Possibles

Possibles. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:04, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. From the list, the following need to be investigated further: George W. Bush, John F. Kennedy, George Washington, and Jesse Ventura. "Al and Tipper Gore" are listed as politicians, though Tipper has never held an office herself, so she should not be included on the list. By the way, this is currently the Collaboration for WikiProject Cannabis, so hopefully the list and lead can be expanded within the next two weeks, and a DYK fact can be nominated to increase exposure of the list. --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Regarding George Washington, this article mentions it was likely he did smoke marijuana, but this is hardly an admission of recreational use. This book claims Kennedy used marijuana, but (again) this is not an admission. Ventura appears to hold a progressive position on the subject, but I cannot find an admission. Bush is discussed above. --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

What about judges? Douglas H. Ginsburg admits it - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:35, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I saw that, but are judges considered politicians? I thought not, but perhaps consensus would indicate otherwise. --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, he's held positions in the Reagan administration like a politician, but he never ran for anything that I can find, he was always appointed. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:52, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

The politician article defines one as "an individual who is involved in influencing public decision making", including "judges who are elected or appointed because of their political views or popularity" but not including "members of the judicial branch... since they are generally executing or adjudicating established law and custom". One could argue either way. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:32, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Update: Now that a "pre-prohibtion" section has been added, Founding Fathers can be cited for cannabis use. I found sources for Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington, though I am still trying to track down sources for others politicians that grew hemp during the colonial era and soon after. Also, I found a source for Lincoln. Who knew?! (Note: This is the third comment I have added to the page in the past few minutes, so feel free to take a look at the other sections for other comments.) --Another Believer _(Talk) 00:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow! Great job. The "Lifetime" and "Notability (Highest Position)" section headers sound a little funny. I can't think of anything better, though. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I agree, though I could not think of anything better either. I took "Lifetime" from List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: A, which is a featured list. --Another Believer _(Talk) 00:58, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I looked through a bunch of FLs, and didn't find much. Maybe the way List of cardinal-nephews does lifetime is good. Not sure. And maybe just "Highest position" would be better. "Notability" sounds like an internal wikipedia term. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 01:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that way produces much more white space, and with the way the table is now users can sort by birth year, regardless of whether the individual is still alive or not. I was leaning towards just "Notability", but that might work as well. I am sure the peer review process, and possibly even the featured list nomination process(?), will produce proper column titles. --Another Believer _(Talk) 01:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

What about having some prose notes for each entry with an explanation? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, that would just take up so much space, and in most cases (post-prohibition) the explanation would simply be "recreational use" which is made clear by the prose written above. A user can click on the reference to be directed to the source, which explains the method/time of use, etc. --Another Believer _(Talk) 02:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Peregrine Fisher, or others, did you happen to come across any other possibilities? Just thought I would ask, or see if any other suggestions could be made, before I nominate the list for a peer review. I am quite certain there are many other politicians out there that have admitted to previous cannabis use, but I seem to have hit a wall based on the numerous Google News and web searches I have used. I can't find one for JFK, though I was really hoping I could. --Another Believer _(Talk) 02:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, the problem is with "admit". There's lots of RSs that say people used MJ, but not that many were willing to come out an say it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:55, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

True, but I imagine there are still many others out there that admit they experimented in the past. Well, if you happen across any, be sure to add them to the list! Or, did you have any other suggestions for the list. I am quite satisfied with it at the moment, though I do think more sources should be added, although the information is accurate. Also, I can't quite decide if the lead needs to be tweaked or expanded a bit, or if a lead image should be added. --Another Believer _(Talk) 02:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone from High Times or one of the main stream publications ever just asked every Senator and House member, past and present (the past ones would probably admit it more readily than some of the current crop)? It seems like an obvious journalistic endeavor. And maybe a companion article which lists those who didn't come out and say it but data exists that they have used recreationaly, that's where you can fit in JFK, RFK, Bush Jr., and many others. Aleister Wilson (talk) 21:02, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I did happen across an article that mentioned a Playboy issue (I think around 1975 or so) that highlighted pot usage by several politicians. However, I have been unable to find that issue, or at least the relevant article, online. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I have abook from the 60s called the Marijuana Papers that compiles articles up till the war on drugs that would help this page. I cannot edit. I tried once. Try being the word. Ankatea (talk) 00:50, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Dubious

I've been checking around a little on the Abe Lincoln "sweet hemp" thing, and so far it looks to me like this may or may not be a fabrication. What I'm getting is that it may have been made up by someone on the Huffington post last year, but further research is going to be necessary. If anyone can help get to the bottom of this, it would greatly appreciated. --Leodmacleod (talk) 21:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can tell no such letter exists in Lincoln's surviving letters. The only mention of Hemp in any of Lincoln's publicly available Papers comes from people writing to him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scuthell (talk • contribs) 22:25, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Two problems: 1) The people of the day referred to cannabis as Indian Hemp. Hemp does not always refer to cannabis.

2) While recreational cannabis use was not uncommon in America during the later years of Mr. Lincoln's life, smoking it was almost, if not totally unheard of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hasheesh_Eater Duncan20903 (talk) 13:06, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

See also: http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/characters_drug_use.shtml, http://www.mudcat.org/detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=2683245, http://radicalruss.com/potheads-stop-using-the-debunked-veranda-hohner-and-intemperance-presidential-pot-quotes/, and http://www.slatts.ukfsn.org/famous/famous-notes.htm. Salient historical facts: Lincoln did not smoke (or drink) at all, and Hohner did not make harmonicas in 1855, when the letter was supposedly written. More specifically, the letter has never been seen, and its existence has been denied by a person at Hohner. The box lid to which it has also been attributed has also never been seen (and would not be a legitimate source if it had). There is nothing in the copious historical literature on Lincoln because the claim has nothing to do with history; it's a sniggering late-night pothead polemic and discredits the legalization movement. No historian would give this "quote" a second look. The same goes for this entire article, in fact. 67.170.84.219 (talk) 11:03, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

As of 11/6/2012, the Abe Lincoln quote has been removed but his name remains in the list. --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:08, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Update: An anonymous contributor removed Lincoln from the list. --Another Believer _(Talk) 10:50, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Misleading Article

admitting to the use of cannabis does not mean having been recorded in history as cultivating hemp. to anyone visiting the page, they will be expecting to see a list of politicians who had smoked pot. seeing george washington's face on the right is even more misleading, as there are no sources saying he smoked. it is kind of odd to point out that the founding fathers, who were owners of farms, grew hemp, which most farm owners did in that time. this entire article needs to weed out cannabis use from hemp cultivation.

Mr. Washington made a note in one of his diaries that he separated male plants from female, "rather too late". There's no reason to do this when cultivating industrial hemp. Medicinal cannabis didn't arrive in the US until the 1840s so he wasn't growing to supply the apothecaries. One last point: smoking is not required to gain the benefits of cannabis for medicinal need or for enjoyment and did not become a ubiquitous delivery method until the early 20th century. Duncan20903 (talk) 12:51, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Note: I moved the section to the bottom of the page so that the talk page remains in chronological order. My reply to your comment is that I do not think the article is misleading if readers actually read the article. Besides, readers can click on any reference for more specific information about that particular politician and why they are included in the list. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

What a load of BS. Of course it's misleading, when the article is titled "politicians who admit to cannabis use". Either the article has to be completely renamed or the material in question has to be removed. But I'm not sure I see a valid rationale for listing colonial era farmers who grew hemp -- unless they were especially notable for growing hemp. Cgingold (talk) 09:38, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, well, clearly I see things differently, but I am not preventing others from editing/(improving?) the list. To me, the name of the list reflects the content--American politicians who admit to cannabis use (hemp is one form of cannabis). I don't see a reason to change the list, so I will leave it to others to do so if they see fit. --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:32, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I also see the title as misleading, and as doing a disservice to the cause of cannabis law reform. Duncan20903 (talk) 12:51, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

What article title would be more appropriate? --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me that this is really two articles instead of one. The first is "List of United States politicians who have acknowledged cannabis use" and the second is "List of politicians who farmed hemp." By conflating the two it makes it seem as if there are parallels where none may exist. George Washington, for example, did grow hemp but did not use cannabis for recreational or medical use because the type of hemp he grew would not have been capable of either.ButlerianWintermute (talk) 16:02, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Cannabis Use vs. Hemp Farming

Cannabis use implies smoking.

Lumping people who farmed hemp as "users" is not at all clear to a reader, especially when the title is "politicians who admit to cannabis use"

Recommend moving Hemp Framers to a new page: List of United States politicians who farmed hemp so that this article becomes clear and is focused on actual users as the title implies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe9541 (talk • contribs) 19:40, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

The second sentence of the Cannabis article reads: "Cannabis has long been used for fibre (hemp), for seed and seed oils, for medicinal purposes, and as a recreational drug." To me, cultivating hemp and smoking for recreational purposes are both ways to use cannabis (both of which also happen to be illegal in the United States). Concerns about this list come up now and then (pretty rarely, considering it receives between 5,000 and 12,000 page views each month), but discussion never leads to solutions. -Another Believer _(Talk) 20:20, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Deitch source

I removed all entries citing the Deitch book (Hemp: American History Revisited etc.). Deitch (pp. 26–27) does not support the claim that most of the listed men "admit to cannabis use" or that they "farmed hemp". He does claim that they smoked cannabis but cites a non-academic book citing an old weed magazine which ran a hoax naming a "Dr. Burke" from an "American Historical Reference Society" that does not exist. There was a Wall Street Journal article investigating the hoax in 1971: "Presidents and Pot, Or: Were Washington And Jefferson Stoned?" (Ronald G. Shafer, October 20, 1971). The Burke quote is repeated all over the Internet but it's fictional. —Designate (talk) 06:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Source

• http://www.hightimes.com/read/11-us-presidents-who-smoked-marijuana ----Another Believer _(Talk) 15:53, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Should there be started a ==Prior to prohibition== section?  If the actual letters of Franklin Pierce, Zachary Taylor, and Andrew Jackson are available online wherein they make the admission, said letters would certainly constitute valid sources.  allixpeeke (talk) 09:08, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Rand Paul

• http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/05/asked-about-marijuana-rand-paul-says-made-mistakes/ ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Do unelected candidates count as "politicians"?

The Libertarian Party's 1998 nominee for governor of California, Steve Kubby, is a cancer patient who has consumed marijuana.  He also sought the LP's 2008 nomination for president, but failed to secure said nomination.&nbsp allixpeeke (talk) 09:30, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I think it would be best to include officeholders only. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:54, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I could not agree less. Taking the case of Steve Kubby, he most certainly meets the definition of "politician". (Frankly, it would be absurd to argue to the contrary.) Surely any person who secured the nomination of a political party -- and has an article here because they meet WP:NOTABILITY -- should be included on this list. Cgingold (talk) 08:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Those individuals who were elected to office can be denoted as "officeholders", or alternatively, those who failed to be elected could perhaps be listed separately. I'm going to hold off on adding Steve Kubby to the list until we reach a decision on how best to deal with that distinction. Cgingold (talk) 08:08, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

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