Talk:List of VFL/AFL pre-season and night series premiers

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What's a night premier? RickK 00:24, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

A winner of the night premiership, a pre-season competition in the AFL. I've reworded the intro so that it's hopefully a little clearer now. Shane King 00:55, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

1 competition or many?

Recently this article (and the numerous copies of it under other titles) has been editted drastically, with most of the changes about the grouping, classifying or titles of the various competitions over the years. My reasons for my latest reverting of BrianBeahr's edits is as follows.

1. This is a list of premiers. It does not need to go into exact detail of name changes, qualifications, etc. That should all be in the "main" associated article Australian Football League pre-season competition. The lead paragraph should follow the opening sentence and Stand alone list lead and selection criteria guidelines, stating that This is a complete list of Xs, and it should have a link to the "main" article, which I did add, but it was removed.
2. The phrase National Cup is not used by the AFL, the media or supporters in any manner in relation to these competitions, so it shouldn't be used here. Pre-season Cup, Pre-season competition, pre-season series are all OK, but never "National".
3. The consolation series also seems like a good description of it, but the reference I've added doesn't call it that, just "night Premiership" and "The night series has been described as a 'loser's championship'", so consolation should only be used as a descriptor, not as the title.
4. The use of VFL Night Series and the split between VFL and AFL gives undue weight to the name change and not enough weight to the change from a mid-year series to the pre-season series. The name change was purely cosmetic, the change in the timing was more significant. On the otherhand, the official AFL annual record books make no distinction/separation between the 'consolation' night series, the 70s/80s night series and the 90s/00s pre-season comp. All are grouped together.

Hope all of these edits make sense and that we can make this article better together, not just squabble over the minor details. The-Pope (talk) 23:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Double Premierships

Mr 60.240.118.WHYDONTYOUREGISTER seems intent on making the Double Premiership section complicated and hard to read. After persisting with a two table design for a while, he's now moved to a double line design. So, maybe I'm unique in not thinking that it's difficult to read, so can other users please decide whether this is a clear and concise table:

Season	Premier	Runner Up	Score	Venue	Attendance	Premiership
1984	Essendon	Sydney Swans	13.11 (89) - 5.8 (38)	Waverley Park	30,824	Pre-Season
1984	Essendon	Hawthorn	14.21 (105) - 12.9 (81)	MCG	92,685	AFL Grand Final
1986	Hawthorn	Carlton	9.12 (66) - 5.6 (36)	Waverley Park	19,627	Pre-Season
1986	Hawthorn	Carlton	16.14 (110) - 9.14 (68)	MCG	101,861	AFL Grand Final
1988^	Hawthorn	Geelong	10.10 (70) - 9.13 (67)	Waverley Park	35,803	Pre-Season
1988	Hawthorn	Melbourne	22.20 (152) - 6.20 (56)	MCG	93,754	AFL Grand Final
1993	Essendon	Richmond	14.18 (102) - 11.13 (79)	Waverley Park	75,533	Pre-Season
1993	Essendon	Carlton	20.13 (133) - 13.11 (89)	MCG	96,862	AFL Grand Final
2000	Essendon	Kangaroos	16.21 (117) - 11.10 (76)	MCG	56,720	Pre-Season
2000	Essendon	Melbourne	19.21 (135) - 11.9 (75)	MCG	96,249	AFL Grand Final
2009	Geelong	Collingwood	0.18.19 (127) - 1.6.6 (51)	Etihad Stadium	37,277	Pre-Season
2009	Geelong	St Kilda	12.8 (80) - 9.14 (68)	MCG	99,251	AFL Grand Final

or is this preferable?

Year	Double premier	Pre-season runner up	Pre-season grand final scores	Premiership runner up	Premiership grand final scores
1984	Essendon	Sydney Swans	13.11 (89) - 5.8 (38)	Hawthorn	14.21 (105) - 12.9 (81)
1986	Hawthorn	Carlton	9.12 (66) - 5.6 (36)	Carlton	16.14 (110) - 9.14 (68)
1988	Hawthorn	Geelong	10.10 (70) - 9.13 (67)	Melbourne	22.20 (152) - 6.20 (56))
1991	Hawthorn	North Melbourne	14.19 (103) - 7.12 (54)	West Coast	20.19 (139) - 13.8 (86)
1993	Essendon	Richmond	14.18 (102) - 11.13 (79)	Carlton	20.13 (133) - 13.11 (89)
2000	Essendon	Kangaroos	16.21 (117) - 11.10 (76)	Melbourne	19.21 (135) - 11.9 (75)
2009	Geelong	Collingwood	0.18.19 (127) - 1.6.6 (51)	St Kilda	12.8 (80) - 9.14 (68)

is clearer, especially when you consider that the full details are provide in the tables earlier in the article, or in the links provided in the table for the "season proper" Grand Final.The-Pope (talk) 12:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)