Talk:List of active Italian military aircraft

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Checked. Redalert2fan (talk) 12:46, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

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Leonardo S.p.a. and Agusta Westland

Leonardo Spa is the italian brand wholly owner of Agusta Westland.There's little to comment.79.42.201.202 (talk) 19:46, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Very interesting but I am not sure it is relevant to this article. MilborneOne (talk) 20:18, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Just out of interest to those that keep reverting the changes to the article, "origin" is the origin of the aircraft not the company involved. The CSAR-rolled AW101s for the Air Force are built in Yeovil which is not in Italy, The Navy 101s are built in Italy. Also on other aircraft types unless somebody can provide evidence that Italy operates Non-Italian built Typhoons or Tornados I will change it back to Say Italy, also I have not seen a reliable reference that any of the Brazil-built AMXs are in Italian service. Also the Air Force NH-90s are built in Italy. As also all ATR72s are assembled in France then that also needs to be changed. MilborneOne (talk) 20:18, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

The sole owner of the brand of all its compnents it's now Leonardo.All the references you ask can be easily found ,you 're fighting a lost battle in bad feith.79.42.201.202 (talk) 20:23, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Nobody is saying that Leonardo is not an Italian company but the helicopters are built in the UK, I dont think they moved Yeovil to Italy, pretty sure it is still in England. Did you actually read what I said about "origin" ? MilborneOne (talk) 20:29, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Technology and production is owned by the italian company Leonardo.The seller is Leonardo.Even many pieces of products can arrive from Italy.Nothing is british.Buton in drinks sector was italian but now is Diageo (UK)79.42.201.202 (talk) 20:30, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Still not relevant the helicopters are built in Yeovil, search for Yeovil on a map you will find it in the United Kingdom, which I am pretty sure is not in Italy. MilborneOne (talk) 20:36, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Check Leonardo holding and you find that AW is owned by it that is based in Rome.AW is an italian company at every level with production sites all over the world.That town is one of those.79.42.201.202 (talk) 20:38, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Nobody is saying you are wrong just that the helicopters are built in the United Kingdom, I am starting to repeat my self here, do you have a reliable source that the Air Force 101s are not built at Yeovil in the United Kingdom. MilborneOne (talk) 20:41, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Can you prove that pieces don't arrive from Italy or other countries? In the reference the helicopter is officially a product made by AW owned by Leonardo (Rome,Italy).It's beginning a trolling.Please set a reference that the helicopter is owned by a british brand.79.42.201.202 (talk) 20:43, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

We have never said it was a "British" brand just that the origin (where it was assembled and flown) is the UK, and we dont list the origin as every country that has supplied a part, it would be a long list. In case it is not clear please read a Leonardo press release http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/italian-air-force-aw101-maiden-flight AgustaWestland, a Finmeccanica company, is pleased to announce that the first AW101 for the Italian Air Force, designated the HH-101A “CAESAR”, made its maiden flight at AgustaWestland’s Yeovil facility in the UK. MilborneOne (talk) 20:47, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

The matter is that you report the owner site that is italian.The brand is italian even if the product is made (partially may be because pieces arrive from all over the world)in UK.Before it was an italian-british brand.79.42.201.202 (talk) 20:50, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Question what is the meaning of the word "origin" in these aircraft lists? - clue it is further up in this discussion. MilborneOne (talk) 20:52, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Ownership and so the owner of technology.Products can be produced everywhere.79.42.201.202 (talk) 20:55, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Sorry not the correct answer, read my earlier comments again, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 20:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

I can't give you the answer you like.The owner is Leonardo.F-35 are produced also in Italy by Leonardo ,so are they an italian product?It seems US don't like to hear this.If it it 's so i can edit that F35 is an italian product built with licence.I don't believe this at all.79.42.201.202 (talk) 20:58, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

The F-35 should have an origin of "Italy" if they were assembled and flown in Italy. MilborneOne (talk) 21:05, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

No.They are US technology.So try to set in all F35 sites that F35 has its origin in Italy)Who decides if tomorrow Yeovil is opened or closed or what as to do?79.42.201.202 (talk) 21:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Back to the same question as before, perhaps it is a language thing, origin is not ownership/technology/branding it is the place where the aircraft came from. The HH-101s are assembled and built in the United Kingdom so Origin = United Kingdom, The Italian Air Force F-35 is assembled and built in Italy so Origin = Italy. MilborneOne (talk) 21:13, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Origin is who projects it.In this case Leonardo.79.42.201.202 (talk) 21:15, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

I'd say the origin should refer to the Original creator, so the origins of the F-35 would be the US - the AW101 would be the UK & Italy - FOX 52 (talk) 23:05, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

OK but thats not how it is used at the moment, as I have explained Origin is where the aircraft came from not who designed it or supplied bits and bobs to assembly it, this would be misleading. It would actually mean the F-35 would be Italy/Japan/United Kingdom/United States. Just to note that the "National Origin" in the aircraft articles doesnt work the same way. If we want to change the approach perhaps it needs project discussion MilborneOne (talk) 08:18, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

For that product i'll make you happy ,i'll set Italy /UK even if reality is different.BAE is the only true origin of british products.I don't want to discuss for this things or similar ones.79.42.201.202 (talk) 07:27, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

European Union?

I must really object to the "national origin" of both Tornado and Typhoon being described as "European Union". Whatever idea of "origin" one might have, most EU countries never took part in these projects and the EU as a political entity - I'd hardly call it a "nation" - certainly never had anything to do with them. As we all know both planes "originated" from a UK-Germany-Italy initiative.

As to the similar related debate about Leonardo, why not replace "national origin" with "original manufacturer" or something like that. Those who must needs be overproud of a given country can click the link and learn the vicissitudes of that company.

After all, what is exactly the meaning (and relevance) of "national origin" in a world of outsourcing and multinationals?

If we consider ownership, would my (presumably Italian) friend at 79.42.201.202 describe an Alfa Romeo (by the way, I own one) as "of Dutch origin" because Stellantis is headquartered in Amsterdam? I think not. Also, the "national origin" of Rolls-Royce cars would be Germany (BMW), and the "national origin" of Guinness beer would be the UK (the owner is London-based Diageo). Try telling that to an Irishman.

If we consider "where it was assembled and flown" (as per MilborneOne statement above) - sounds better, but we are disregarding who designed it and where - and anyway, what happens when something is assembled in two or more countries but (necessarily) made its maiden flight in just one of them? Is Concorde of "French origin" because it first flew in Toulouse? 93.66.2.71 (talk) 23:02, 4 May 2023 (UTC)