Talk:List of chess openings

Wikified?

Should these be wikified and have articles? Meelar 17:12, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Well... it's fine to have articles on particular openings, for sure (we have, for example, Nimzo-Indian, Ruy Lopez and others), but my view is that it isn't a great idea (at least at this stage) to have an article on every ECO code. What the list needs, I think, is some organisation under larger headings - "B20-B99: Sicilian Defence", "C00-C19: French Defence" and that sort of thing - and those headings can link to articles about the openings. It also needs to explication - a note like "B44=Sicilian defense" is not particularly useful. It needs to say exactly what lines fall under B44. I may have a go at doing this myself over the next week or so. --Camembert

An afterthought: it might actually be best to have a simpler list, maybe just arranged alphabetically, here, and move the ECO classification to Encyclopedia of Chess Openings. In any case, a simple list without codes would be good, I think. The list as it stands looks pretty daunting. Anybody else have any thoughts? --Camembert

The full list is useful, but is too big to go into Encyclopedia of Chess Openings. A simpler (and wikified) list would be nice if we actually had articles on those openings, but currently most openings are discussed in chess opening, so I think the status quo is fine. -- Arvindn 07:32, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I have done some restructuring of B70. The text "Sicilian, Dragon variation" links directly to the article Sicilian Defense, Dragon Variation. The "B70" links to B70 (chess opening), which redirects to the same page. This is a deviation from the style guideline, which states "A link going straight to the target is preferred over a link relying on a redirect." (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links)) I don't see a better way, though. Sim man 20:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I figured it out. I'll put a short comment on "B70 (chess opening)" and then a link to the main article. Sim man 21:28, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

chessgames.com links

All the opening pages should have an external link to chessgames.com on the appropiate openings page. 70.111.218.254 14:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute! When did Wikipedia become an advertising arm for chessgames.com? Let them find their own clientele. This is is an inappropriate place for content associated with a commercial site to be put out as a sales hook. 23:47, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a place to advertise things.See WP:NOT. 108.26.189.248 (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

King's Pawn Games

I'm a little confused about the classification of games beginning with e4. In the index, it says that C20-C99 is all Double King's Pawn games (1.e4 e5), but in the long list, C20 is given as the King's pawn game (1. e4). Since there are numerous classification codes for 1. e4 that exist outside the C20-c99 range, it seems like C20 should probably be a straight Double King's Pawn game, with the appropriate moves and link. This is especially the case becaue B00 is listed as a simple King's Pawn game.

The C20 openings aare all double king pawn openings, 1. e4 e5. The B00 openings are 1. e4 but not 1... e5, a KP opening, but not a double KP opening. Bubba73 (talk), 00:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I revised B00. The best way to think of it is that C20 contains double KP openings not covered elsewhere and then B00 contains KP games not covered elsewhere. Bubba73 (talk), 01:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

indenting?

What do you think about indenting codes that don't end in a zero, since that is the way they are organized in the book. For example:

• A10 English Opening

• A11 English, Caro-Kann defensive system
• A12 English, Caro-Kann defensive system
• A13 English Opening
• A14 English, Neo-Catalan declined
• A15 English, 1...Nf6 (Anglo-Indian defence)
• A16 English Opening
• A17 English Opening, Hedgehog Defence
• A18 English, Mikenas-Carls variation
• A19 English, Mikenas-Carls, Sicilian variation

• A20 English Opening

and

• B70 Sicilian, Dragon variation

• B71 Sicilian, Dragon, Levenfish variation
• B72 Sicilian, Dragon, 6.Be3
• B73 Sicilian, Dragon, Classical, 8.O-O
• B74 Sicilian, Dragon, Classical, 9.Nb3
• B75 Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack
• B76 Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 7...O-O
• B77 Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 9.Bc4
• B78 Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 10.O-O-O
• B79 Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav attack, 12.h4

• B80 Sicilian Defence, Scheveningen Variation

• B81 Sicilian, Scheveningen, Keres attack
• B82 Sicilian, Scheveningen, 6.f4
• B83 Sicilian, Scheveningen, 6.Be2
• B84 Sicilian, Scheveningen (Paulsen), Classical variation
• B85 Sicilian, Scheveningen, Classical variation with ...Qc7 and ...Nc6

etc. And maybe the redundant uses of "English", "Sicilian, Dragon" and "Sicilian Scheveningen" can be eliminated too, since it is clear from the structure. Bubba73 (talk), 00:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. 108.26.189.248 (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

ECO from Caro-Kann

The Encyclopaedia of Chess Openings has ten codes for the Caro-Kann Defence, B10 through B19:

B10 Hillbilly Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Bc4
B10 Modern; English Variation, Accelerated Panov; Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.c4
B10 Breyer Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d3
B10 Stein Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 g6 4.g3 Bg7 5.Bg2 e5 6.Ngf3 Ne7 7.O-O O-O 8.b4
B10 Massachussets Defense, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 f5
B10 Masi Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 Nf6
B10 Scorpion-Horus Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.d3 dxe4 4.Bg5
B10 Goldman Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Qf3
B10 Two Knights Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3

B11 Two Knights Attack, Caro Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3
B11 Mindeno Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 Bg4
B11 Retreat Line, Mindeno Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.h3 Bh5

B12 Landau Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Bd3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 6.e6
B12 Mieses Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Be3
B12 Diemer-Duhm Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.c4
B12 Advance Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5
B12 Prins Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.b4
B12 Bayonet Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.g4
B12 Tal Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.h4
B12 Van der Wiel Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nc3
B12 Dreyev Defense, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nc3 Qb6
B12 Bronstein Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Ne2
B12 Short Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3
B12 Botvinnik-Carls Defense, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5
B12 Maroczy Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3
B12 Fantasy; Lilienfisch Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3
B12 Maroczy Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3 dxe4 4.fxe4 e5 5.Nf3 exd4 6.Bc4
B12 Modern Variation, Caro-Kann-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2
B12 New Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 g6
B12 Edinburgh Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Qb6
B12 Ulysses Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5
B12 De Bruycker Defense, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 Na6
B12 Hector Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5

B13 Rubinstein Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd3 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Nf6 6.Bf4
B13 Panov-Botvinnik, Gunderam Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4

B14 Carlsbad Line, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 e6
B14 Czerniak Line, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 Qa5
B14 Reifir-Spielmann Line, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 Qb6

B15 Gurgenidze Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 b5
B15 Von Hennig Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Bc4
B15 Milner-Barry Gambit, Rasa-Studier Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3
B15 Knight Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6
B15 Tarrasch (Alekhine) Gambit, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Bd3
B15 Tartakower Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6+ exf6
B15 Forgacs Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6+ exf6 6.Bc4
B15 Gurgenidze System, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 g6
B15 Gurgenidze Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 g6 4.e5 Bg7 5.f4 h5
B15 Campomanes Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6

B16 Finnish Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 h6
B16 Nimzovich; Bronstein-Larsen, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6+ gxf6

B17 Karpov Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7
B17 Smyslov Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Bc4 Ngf6 6.Ng5 e6 7.Qe2 Nb6
B17 Tiviakov-Fischer Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Bc4 Ngf6 6.Nxf6+ Nxf6
B17 Kasparov Attack, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Nf3 Ngf6 6.Ng3
B17 Ivanchuk Defense, Caro Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ndf6

B18 Classical Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5
B18 Flohr Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.Nh3

B19 Seirawan Variation, Caro-Kann 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.h4 h6
7.Nf3 Nd7 8.e5 Bh7 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3

Wiki as an advertising hook?

This whole section ends up being a big advertising campaign for chessgames.com.

All the diagrams are accompanied by links to their website which then quickly pops up a STOP sign requesting membership for $29 per year.

This really needs to be expunged. Even if what they provide was really valuable - it isn't - putting it on a wiki page is inappropriate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.11.35 (talk) 23:41, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

This appears to be gone now. 108.26.189.248 (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

How about a short overview section right after the lead secion?

Hi, I think a short overview section right after the lead secion could be an improvement. Now each volume section has an individual overview part. If one wants to find a particular opening and does not know which openings are included in each volume, one has to through each volume. Having an overview right at the start could make that unnecessary and help to find openings more quickly. What are your thoughts on this? Regards, 75.159.195.203 (talk) 19:52, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Red links around Benoni (A70)

A lot of the links made around the Benoni do not exist. Please fix this, either by having these red links link to the "Benoni Defense#ECO" or creating redirects with these links' titles. I can't do this, of course, because I am an unregistered user. 108.26.189.248 (talk) 14:38, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

A04: Réti or Zukertort? The link is wrong!

The Réti's Opening article is about 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4, while the Zukertort's Opening article is about everything starting with 1.Nf3 (including the Réti's). The most common name for 1.Nf3 is "Réti", even if everybody knows that it is not the properly correct name, in the other hand Zukertort is completely ignored as opening name, so what should we do? I don't know, maybe just call it "Zukertort–Réti Opening"? Or put a generic name, like "King's Knight Opening". In any case whatever will be decided the link aside A04 is wrong and should be fixed in order to link to the Zukertort's page, not the Réti's. Only the A09 should link to the "real" Réti's. --Little bishop (talk) 16:24, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

A – Flank openings - Dutch Defence not excluded before mentioned

Under A – Flank openings, the second bullet point (1.d4 without 1...d5 or 1...Nf6: Atypical replies to 1.d4 (A40–A44)) does include the Dutch Defence 1. d4 f5. The Dutch Defence is however already covered in the following fifth bullet point (1.d4 f5: Dutch Defence (A80–A99)).

As for "B – Semi-Open Games other than the French Defense" a bullet point should exclude openings listed otherwise. Here the Sicilian Defence is correctly excluded in the first bullet point (1.e4 without 1...c5, 1...e6 or 1...e5 (B00–B19)) as covered in the second bullet point (1.e4 c5: Sicilian Defence (B20–B99)).

To follow the same presentation style "1.d4 without 1...d5 or 1...Nf6: Atypical replies to 1.d4 (A40–A44)" must be changed to "1.d4 without 1...d5, 1...Nf6 or 1...f5: Atypical replies to 1.d4 (A40–A44)".

The same text is used on Main ECO codes - A so the comment applies to this page as well. --Dlb (talk) 01:23, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion for organization

Given how this page is organized, as well as the chess infobox, I've found it very hard to find pages for what should be the simplest thing in chess openings, being the 20 first moves White can make. Somehow, I think these 20 should all be put together in some sort of list, as currently, I've found it pretty cumbersome to find them when I don't know them by name. In this page they're fairly close together but I still feel it's a bit cluttered and unnecessarily difficult to find these. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 23:01, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

lichess database

This database is more extensive (though not a strict superset of what is listed on Wikipedia); should it also be incorporated? --Jlowery2663 (talk) 22:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

is it a bit excessive Tyurywfer (talk) 00:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

i added that entire database but the list is quite long Tyurywfer (talk) 16:41, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Of White's 20 legal moves, only 1.e4, 1.d4, 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 are commonly played in high level games. 1.g3 is probably respectable (it usually transposes). On the outer edges of respectability are 1.b3 and 1.f4. All the other moves are strictly fringe. This is why I don't like all the space dedicated to ridiculous made-up names for lines that are never played in serious games, like Chenoboskion Variation. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 06:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Many of the lines and names are ridiculous and are never actually used, but you can't discern that from our lists. Two independent reliable sources should be required for every chess opening line and name. Unfortunately it can be difficult to know whether low quality sources are independent or if they are both largely copying the same third low quality source. And there are a lot of low quality sources for chess opening names. Quale (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Some of them come from that idiotic Schiller book, others are internet chess memes. There is of course no "official" list of accepted chess opening names but there has to be a line somewhere. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 09:58, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm a contributor to the eco.json project. There, for every opening, if an alias is listed that means there were at least two sources. Caveat: Not all openings have aliases, and there's no telling if the two sources are independent. But it might be useful in determining "true" openings.

Another approach would be to search a large master games database to look for occurrences of openings there. I'm not sure that's a good idea, either--I play Santasierre's Folly and the St. George Defense in my rapid games online and there are probably not many master game examples, though both openings are well-documented. Jlowery2663 (talk) 17:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

My concern is that the list now contains numerous joke openings some rando at chess.com invented, and not found in any of the standard chess sources. See WP:CHESSOPENINGS. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 19:16, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I share your concern. For database purposes, if I can find a name for an opening I will use it, joke or not, but for this article it's excessive. In the eco.json project I mentioned, there are over 11,000 openings (identified by FEN), not including "interpolated" openings (another 4000), which don't matter in this case.

I'm not a big Wikipedia contributor and don't know all the best practices, but I wonder if a lot of this list could be placed in Wikimedia and linked to (i.e., other...) from here? Is that an acceptable alternative? Jlowery2663 (talk) 17:16, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

There's also the SCID database, if you really want to get into it. And then there's Wikimedia, which I know has at least one opening (Charles Opening) than I cannot find elsewhere. Jlowery2663 (talk) 17:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I would help if the lists were collapsible, now that they are so long. Jlowery2663 (talk) 17:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)