Talk:List of cities in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa by population

On New Changes

@Innocent Paki:

This is my response to the changes that have been made very recently to this article:

So, I'd like to start with the removal of the references column. Personally, I think that was unnecessary and we can use both those sources and the sources from citypopulation.de. Now, this isn't because I think citypopulation.de is inaccurate (it's really very nicely done), but I think it's useful for someone who wants to go directly to the government source, which I think is better to use when available. Also, this is the general pattern among most other articles that list city or subnational division populations, as they link to the government data when possible. I think a solution would be to keep the reference column as is (providing a source for every single row) and add the citypopulation.de at the top of the column for others who don't want to go that deep in the data (I personally fall in the latter category, so I'm a little biased on this).

Dang, you're editing so fast that I had a whole paragraph on the aesthetic issues you caused but now it looks fine because you've added the images. Thanks for adding those, it looks way better now.

The other major thing you did was delete every city with a population under 50,000. I think that those definitely should be added again. Your major issue is that those aren't cities, but I added those because many major and important cities of the province don't have populations that high (or are just under the limit). Bannu , Dir, and Timergara were the three cities in particular that actually made me lower the limit to 30,000 (I originally had it at 50,000 as well). All of these cities for the most part have the same rank given to them by the government (M.C. or M.Corp.), so it isn't really much of a syntactical issue, and really, the lines that define where a something isn't a city anymore and is called a town are extremely ambiguous, and we have to be flexible when we're defining these limits. I'm actually currently making an article with Balochistan's cities, and I lowered the limit even further to 10,000 (I think lists with at least 30 - 50 entries is a decent amount). There are only around a dozen cities (or more correctly, municipalities) in Balochistan with populations above 50,000, and the list would be way too small. Goalposts shift as you go to different places that span different areas with different urbanizations. In Uttar Pradesh, there are many places that people call villages even though they have more than 10,000 people. In Balochistan, though, a place of that population is labeled a city and may even be significant at the provincial level (the divisional headquarters of Zhob and Qalat both have less than 50,000 people, and Qalat barely was at 20,000 in 1998). I'm also open to renaming this article to "List of municipalities in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa by population" or "List of populated places in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa by population" (doesn't sound too good).

About the other edits, I agree with those. Removing the second paragraph is fine (I just had it there, because I like sections to start with a sentence, but maybe we can just remove the section the same way in the article "List of cities in Pakistan by population"). Switching the two columns around is fine (you better have done that in the visual editor at least!), I'm not too familiar with the conventions of Wikipedia, and if that's how it is, that's how it is. I'm gonna keep that in mind for future articles. Thanks for the guidance!

Anyways, I'm going to revert the edits that both of us don't agree on for now (the way we did in the article about Pakistan's metro areas), and we can implement ideas after we come up with a solution that at least both of us can agree on. --Abbasi786786 (talk) 19:26, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

@Abbasi786786:

Hi Abbasi786786! Although I agreed on adding the column of reference as it contains official sources but I didn't agree on adding the towns having population of less than 50,000. If a province has less population then it doesn't mean we'll lower the population required by city to be entered in the list, but the list of that province will be shortened definitely.

Although I didn't agree with your point of view but want to comprise on that and letting you add the towns having population of at least 30,000. Creating the article named List of municipalities/populated places of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa by population doesn't sounds good as it will not matched the other articles of the country like list of cities in Pakistan (& Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan) by population.

I've also seen the draft of list of cities of Balochistan which you are preparing and I've seen the same issue on it that you've lowered the population requirement to even 10,000 as you told. But I also want to compromise on that. Only one thing I wanna tell about that article is that please check the arrangement of population columns and add the recent census (2017) figures' column before the 1998 census figures' column which you didn't do here. I'm compromising on rest of everything. Cheers, Innocent Paki (talk) 20:14, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

@Innocent Paki:

First of all, Thank you for the help on this new articles. It's been really nice having you critique and edit this list so you could let me know where I was going wrong, what needed improvement, and what other readers might find confusing. Anyway, before you attempt to compromise. What would you think about naming all of the pages (Punjab, Sindh, KPK, etc.) "List of cities and towns in [ENTER PROVINCE NAME] by population" or "List of municipalities in [ENTER PROVINCE NAME] by population" (maybe not the national one though). We can easily move the pages to those names. About the Balochistan draft I currently have ongoing, I'm definitely going to be switching the 2017 and 1998 population columns around, don't worry about that. I'll get to it tomorrow sometime. Thanks for the help, and see you in the talk section of the Metro areas article!--Abbasi786786 (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

@Abbasi786786:

It's my pleasure to work with you on these types of articles. I don't think it's good to redirect the already existing pages of Punjab and Sindh as all the entries of lists of these provinces are not municipalities (some are tehsil headquarters like Samundri, Jaranwala) but can be called cities due to their immense population. So, we can use the word city for them but not municipality as every city in the lists is not municipality. Also the some of towns which you've added in this list of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa are not municipalities like Matta, Risalpur etc. So, concept of changing the existing name of cities into municipalities can't be implemented. I think we should leave the name of articles as they are presently. One thing for precision is that we should add the word town with cities in lists of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan only. Rest of everything is fine and some is even negligible. Innocent Paki (talk) 21:08, 28 June 2020 (UTC)