Talk:List of closed railway stations in London/Archive 1

Archive 1

Clean-up of 5 March 2008

Contrary to "best" usage this is at the top so today's changes, mostly based on earlier Talk, can be seen as attempted and not as things still to do.
Things still to do include: Check data, more stations, add grid refs, recover lost Categories List, tackle the Old Oaks,.......
(Strike-though-SilasW (talk) 18:11, 7 March 2008 (UTC))

Table mess
Travelcard zones removed
"Replaced by" now = Opened on closure of station listed, or later re-built on same site or on nearby site on same track, not just a geographically near station.

Addiscombe and Bingham Road
Any railway station which became a Tramlink stop has "Tramlink stop" in the Replaced by column (or "Tramlink stop +/-" to mean "nearby"). Each "Tramlink stop" is linked to the stop's WP article. Addiscombe stop is near the site of Bingham Road station.

Local Authority
Column zapped.

Croydon Tramlink

Southwark Park railway station
Now listed as is Commercial Docks, the station it replaced, neither has a WP article.

Cannon Street Road and Jerico Road
Already resolved.

Closed and Disused
?????????

Company vs Railway line
I've tried to give the founding company but a few need tweaking (eg on WLL were some stations a particular company's, were all NLR really theirs?, TM&WR has no WP article but some links get to the Sutton and Wimbledon).

Grid Reference
Given the size of a station a six figure grid ref (eg TQ320795) should do and takes less space than lat & long.

Pax
No reversion war please. Pax makes a narrower column than its linked Passengers.--SilasW (talk) 16:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

&

At this stage Co. name abbreviations have &s for "and"s whether officially used or not.--SilasW (talk) 19:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Table mess

(Copied over from Talk:List of London railway stations where the table used to be.)

The table looks very confused:

1). Most stations closed well before the introduction of the travelcard fare zones. The table just leaves an ugly blank there - maybe a N/A would work best?

2). Some of the "replaced by" entries are weird. Saying that Holborn Viaduct was replaced by City Thameslink is clear - one closed and the other opened almost overnight. Saying that a railway line closed in the 1940s was "replaced" because a DLR service opened in the neighbourhood fifty years later is a very different thing. Also often a station is shut down because improvements to a neighbouring existing station have enhanced its capacity - not really a "this station replaced that one" scenario. Can we limited "replaced by" to stations?

Timrollpickering 15:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

1) Zones seem quite useless and their column makes the table wider where the width would be better used to reduce some entries to single rows. I propose to cut the column.
2) I'm for explicit replacements and not for nearest current station.--SilasW (talk) 12:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Addiscombe and Bingham Road

The situation here is confusing and not correctly represented. Addiscombe station closed on closure of the railway line. The site is now block of flats.

Bingham Road closed a few years earlier on the closure of the line between Woodside and Sanderstead. When Tramlink was built the site was flattened and lowered and a Tramlink stop build at road level. It was this station that was replaced by a tramlink stop that is called Addiscombe. This is where Addiscombe is. Calling the former railway station Addiscombe was a bit of marketing license.--Pedantic of Purley 00:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Local Authority

Also the "local authority" section is meaningless - a lot of stations closed before the 1965 reorganisation and some before the late 1880s. A place name for the area should suffice. Timrollpickering 15:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Croydon Tramlink

For some years the correct title (and the one used by Wikipedia) is simply "Tramlink"--Pedantic of Purley 00:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Southwark Park railway station

seams to have been missed, "Southwark Park railway station" was closed by the SECR in 1915, between New Cross and London Bridge somewhere. Pickle 23:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:East_london_railway_1915.jpg Pickle 23:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Canon Street Road railway station

I'm puzzled by this one. It is said to be in the City of London yet the only road of that name is in Shadwell. I think this might be a confusion with Canon Street Railway Station (still open) but may be a former railway station in Shadwell. Wilmot1 19:06, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Cannon (2 n's) Street Road Station is former station on the London, Tilbury and Southend Railway.

It lies between Christian Street Jn (where the 2/4 track change takes place) and Shadwell (now only on the DLR). Canterberry 20:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry never could spell. However if it was where described it was not in the City of London as stated in the article but in Tower Hamlets - can we confirm this? Wilmot1 08:34, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

If I knew where to find a map of the boroughs of London, then I would be happy to confirm/deny whether it is or is not in Tower Hamlets. Canterberry 21:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Cannon Street Road (B108) is in Tower Hamlets (see here at Multimap.com). Usefully Multimap shows the borough boundaries when the maps are zoomed in sufficiently. --DavidCane 22:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Jerico Road

Can anyone confirm that there was such a station? Apart from this article and a web-page which seems to be a copy of it, Google found nothing like on it. There are streets outside London called Jericho Road.--SilasW 21:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I zapped it about a month ago.--SilasW (talk) 10:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Closed and Disused

Why are there two WP articles? One is a list of extant articles, hence incomplete as No Article = No Mention. The other is in tabular form with some individual entries linked, some with incomplete data. Is not any contrast between 'Closed' and 'Disused' extreme hairsplitting even by the standards of WP and Rail writers? Although geographical entities such as railway stations may slip round the no reference/no mention rule the listing of some station names seems to be the only web source that they ever existed.
Then, as ever, what are bounds of 'London'?--SilasW (talk) 12:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Company vs Railway line

The column named "railways" appears to be a mix of both railway companies (South Eastern Railway (UK) and London, Chatham and Dover Railway) and railway lines (London and Blackwall Railway and Crystal Palace and South London Junction Railway) should we not have two columns although I'm aware the table is quite wide at present and may get too wide. I added Eltham Park and Eltham Well Hall but I wasn't sure whether to put one of, some of, or all of the following in the railways column.

• Bexleyheath line - the line
• South Eastern and Chatham Railway - company when stations opened
• Southern Region of British Railways - company when stations closed

Comments anyone what do you think.

Carlwev (talk) 19:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

List of London railway stations (=open ones) now gives lines. Companies appear only as current managers. Each station has a linked WP article so builders, history, &c are easily found. Here the absence of a station's link might inspire beneficial active editing. I left Line in that table but some familiar names are not official and so missing, and some (mainly the "Sutton & Mole Valley Lines") appeared amazingly often. I'd go for Company on Opening and change the column heading and entries to match and hope that a reversion war did not break out--SilasW (talk) 21:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I am trying to tidy the article but have left the mishmash of Line/Builder/etc for much later.--SilasW (talk) 22:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Fulwell and Westbury

1) Far to far to be called a London station.
2) This "Fulwell" is spellt "Fullwell" on some maps.--SilasW (talk) 21:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)--SilasW (talk) 11:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Old Oak Lane Halt

Was this actually a station on the Great Western Main Line, or just a train maintenance depot. The wikipedia page about Old Oak seems to suggest that it was the latter, but I'm not really sure. Also added Royal Oak tube station and Westbourne Park tube station to the list. Althrough they are both now served by the Hammersmith & City Line, there were previously distinct Great Western stations on the site which closed when the new Underground service began.

So far much of my clean-up has taken what's already written on trust, subject to just a quick look for a hint that it might be so. Googling for Old Oak Lane Halt gives a picture claimed for its site on a single track (http://disused-rlys.fotopic.net/c883007.html). OOL itself is a bit of road twisted into the tangle of lines at Willesden Jn. Perhaps it was not a public halt.--SilasW (talk) 10:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Stations to add

There are many stations to add. I think cases such as Royal Oak should be here, ideally with a link to their own article, but if that does exist then pro tem to O.
Poyle, on the Staines West branch, has just appeared. The rest including Yeoveny should make it.--SilasW (talk) 10:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Poyle is given as S & WDR but as it seems to have opened in 1927 shouldn't that be GWR?--SilasW (talk) 21:41, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Bringing to WP standards

The article was a hodge-podge with little source or reference. My general clean-up has met with no protest or reversion. One source quoted (www.subbrit.org.uk) covers many stations including those not yet listed but some of its grid values (at least on the S Acton to H&C line) do not match what street.co.uk's location-to-grid converter gave, even allowing for extent of stations and rather imprecise location descriptions. That subbrit, valuable though it is, is not perfect is shown by its use of "Too" for "To".

Kew Bridge

The closed part of Kew Bridge was built (I guess) by N&SWJR but its last regular passenger service was terminating NLL trains from Broad Street. Should that make ^(LMS)? The existing Kew Br sta did not replace it. The SR and NLL platforms inside the triangle were connected on the level by an arch under Lionel Road. If there was a second N&SWJR platform (whose wreckage might still be visible) it might not have been used since the short-lived service to Richmond via the Bartnes curve in the 1860s--SilasW (talk) 21:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Devonshire Street

The Closed railway stations in London box has as a station. Did this exist, as it is hard to find evidence of this? Was it just an alternative name for another station?

I think this wasn an alternative name for Globe Road railway station. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 23:16, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The station at Devonshire Street was temporary until the line to the terminus was completed. So it was nailed together in the 1860s. Globe Road railway station was opened in 1884, so it and Devonshire Street station, if ever called that, and wherever it was (no East London street now has the name) were not the same. One of the thousands of closed railway station details which need investigating.--SilasW (talk) 17:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Links

1) This article, as a List, is not like one say on The Somali Sparrow where a good reference book might allow an editor to write it at a session. This article says it is incomplete.
It is. And it was even messier than it is now.
Unearthing closed stations leads one a merry dance. More and more pop up from WP itself and other online sources; sometimes there's just a hint that there were platforms somewhere, sometimes The Literature read in a distant library reveals.
As a Work in Progress it is easier to make as many entries as possible, even incomplete ones, then seek for their missing details. It is easier too to name a link, discover that the linked article does not exist and later use the red words as a flag that it needs to be written.
2) Here the link for station ABC is usually [[ABC railway station|ABC]]. or [[ABC (or even ZYX) tramlink stop|ABC]]. Sometimes that hits a redirect to [[ABC station|ABC]], I'd prefer the station article to get renamed (ABC railway station) with reverse linking if needed. A rare case is where a "simple" name for an article redirects to the full form and prevents the immediate use of the "simple" name for a newly discovered closed station: as Willesden railway station >> Willesden Junction railway station so the short-lived real Willesden railway station is misdirected.--SilasW (talk) 19:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)