Talk:List of computer magazines

??? has anyone extracted this list ???

• other resources:
  • http://www.netvalley.com/top100mag.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Howard nyc (talk • contribs) 17:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

PCC / DDJ

Does anyone know whether the item PCC - The Peoples Computer Company was a separate newsletter/magazine distinctive from DDJ ? I thought PCC was the company that originally published DDJ. --Wernher 02:07, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

IEEE Journal?

Does the IEEE Computer journal really belong on this list? These are general-interest specific magazines. Template:Computer Magazines lists them as PC-specific magazines. IEEE Computer is a journal, and not very interesting to people outside of the industry (even computer owners), and is not PC-specific. Was another magazine intended to be referenced by this template and this article? -- Mikeblas 13:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm i see your point.. although it is a magazine about computers, regardless of who reads it. I was considering adding a section on this article called industry magazines to cover these as there are a few others too. --Errant Tmorton166^(Talk)(Review me) 19:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Redundant

What's the point of having all of these?

1. Category:Computer magazines
2. Computer magazine
3. Computer magazines

-- Mikeblas 00:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm ok, the category is useless as many of the magazines on this list are also in Category:Home computer magazines and assorted other lists. As the the article Computer magazine I did not know that existed - but this is a much better formatted list of magazines - for which most of the articles exist... --Errant Tmorton166^(Talk)(Review me) 09:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I've suggested a merge for the two topics. I'm assuming that "Computer magazines" as an article title is acceptable -- I think the WP:MOS might prefer singular topic names, though, and if this article is really only a list, it should be renamed to "list of computer magazines". I'm still not sure why this list article and the category are both worth having. -- Mikeblas 16:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Look at WP:CAT to see the arguments for and against using list and cat's together. To be honest I am in favour of them but still... I agree with the merge and it is actually technically happeining, but it is a long process. I'm currently cleaning each PC mag article categorizing it and adding it to the correct place in the list. I'm not sure about the rename idea. I had planned to write some info on PC mags in general (historical info etc.) but I don't know.... --Errant Tmorton166^(Talk)(Review me) 20:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of whether cats and lists should co-exist, there seems to be no purpose in having both computer magazine (short article + long list) and computer magazines (long list); they overlap considerably.

There may be a case for having a separate "proper" computer magazine article (titled computer magazine) and list (e.g. List of computer magazines), but not the present set-up with two overlapping articles. Fourohfour 12:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Sister Template

I've raised questions about the purpose of Template:Computer Magazines (closely related to this article) at Template_talk:Computer_Magazines. Fourohfour 12:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Computer Magazines

Template:Computer Magazines has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. --Fourohfour 13:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

ISSNs

• Not a single ISSN is listed on this page. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to untag this page and tag the individual pages on publications that could have an ISSN listed but do not? Keesiewonder ^talk 22:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, and removed. -Tobogganoggin ^talk 23:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

DATAMATION

DATAMATION is no longer a print Magazine. Back in the 1950s it was the first Computer magazine and as far as I know, it is the only Computer Magazine available 24/7 on the Internet. So it must be included in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_magazines I tried to put it in but someone took it out. Who can help? SirswindonSirswindon (talk) 22:50, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

It is in the article, as a defunct magazine. Your (if you are 2605:e000:ffc0:39:1c17:1d5f:a809:5aa9) helpful observation that it is the first computer magazine is also in the article. However, it is not "the only Computer Magazine available 24/7 on the Internet" because it is no longer a magazine; it is an industry news website with the same name as the defunct magazine. Pinkbeast (talk) 09:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Dear Pinkbeast, I just asked the Editor of Datamation the question: Is DATAMATION an ePublication (a magazine on the Internet) or just a news website, and his reply was: "I am the Editor of a magazine that is being published as an ePub on the Internet. We publish articles as does any other magazine. Since we are available 24 hours on every day of the week, our readership is able to log on at any time to read our articles." Therefore I shall put DATAMATION back on the list and PLEASE, Pinkbeast, do not remove it. Sirswindon Sirswindon (talk) 17:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

The editor is hardly a neutral source on the subject; if I make a toasted cheese sandwich and tell you it's haute cuisine, it's still a toasted cheese sandwich.

There might be some grey areas surrounding online publications that put out PDFs or similar in magazine-like formats, but this isn't it. It's just like any other IT news website, so it's an IT news website. It's not remotely like any other magazine, so it's not a magazine.

The claim of "24/7" is pure marketing guff and we have no place reproducing it. Any (well-run) website is available 24/7, and so what? A print magazine that arrives in the post is "available 24/7"; if I fancy having a read of my copy at 3am, I can. Pinkbeast (talk) 04:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Dear Pinkbeast, I do appreciate your trying to deny that it is a magazine, but it is a magazine and by 2050 there will no longer be magazines printed on paper, they will all be like DATAMATION, that is ePublications. (think of the trees that will be saved!) Since you don't like 24/7 what will you accept? I will put it in monthly and I will consult some FUTUROLOGISTS as to how do you describe an ePub that is updated on the Internet daily? But I again ask you not to remove it from Magazines. You will not accept that DATAMATON was not only the first Computer Magazine to be created (way back in 1957) but that it was the first to become solely an ePub giving up being in paper print! Sirswindon (talk) 22:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps then in 2050 we shall have to revisit what a magazine is, but right now, an IT news Website isn't one. How do you describe an ePub that is updated on the Internet daily? That's easy - the buzzwordy use of "ePub" aside, it's an IT news Website, just like The Register. Arising from the ashes of a magazine doesn't make something a magazine.

As I said, there could well be grey areas, it just doesn't strike me that this is one. It has no magazine-like characteristics apart from having the name of a defunct magazine.

I've requested a third opinion at Wikipedia:Third_opinion. I will respect it and I hope you will too. Pinkbeast (talk) 02:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Please give the request for a third opinion the following:

What is the definition of Magazine: Periodical publication containing articles and illustrations, typically covering a particular subject or area of interest. Example: Newsweek magazine which provides analysis, news and opinion about international issues, technology, business, culture and politics.

According to the Wikipedia article on Datamation: “it is a computer magazine that was published in print form in the United States between 1957 and 1998 and has since continued publication on the web. Today, Datamation is owned by OuinStreet and is published as an online magazine at datamation.com.”

Also may I refer you to the wikipedia articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_magazine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_publishing#Examples

Please do give your request what I have written above!!!! Sirswindon (talk) 03:36, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

The third party will come here and see what we have written. The request for a third party is not where you present arguments. If you had read the page before editing it you would have seen the words No discussion of the issue should take place here prominently displayed.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. You can't cite one Wikipedia article as an argument for what should go in another - especially when, as with the claim at Online magazine that Datamation is a magazine, it was written by you and is uncited.

As for the rest, it comes down to yes, there might be grey areas - we can imagine a Website that published PDFs that looked like magazine pages, or put out "issues" of content like a magazine, or something - but Datamation isn't it. Using your own definition, it is not a periodical publication because it's not periodical. Content appears not in periodical lumps but on a daily basis, whenever it is ready. Pinkbeast (talk) 04:12, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Third opinion

Whether one calls it a digital magazine, electronic magazine, online magazine, webzine, or whatever, the fact remains that a magazine doesn't cease being a magazine just because it happens to be online. Various digital publishing platforms I find refer to publishing "magazines". A magazine online doesn't have to be a periodical. That's just one form of publication.

An analogous situation might be scholarly/academic journals. I work for a company that provides an electronic platform for publishers to publish scholarly journals online. Most of these publishers produced hardcopy print publications in the past. Now nearly none of them do. Often these journals are published electronically as they were published in the hardcopy days, with volumes (including a cover image, front matter, masthead, etc.), issues, and corresponding PDF files (all nicely typeset) to accompany the fulltext HTML articles. However (and this is a key point) many of these journals aren't published periodically at all, they use a publication model called "continuous publication" (CP) where articles appear on the site as they pass referee and editorial review. Even some traditional periodically-published journals present content pages to the users organized by topic, category, or collection, and then you can't really distinguish a CP journal from a non-CP journal. But they're all still journals, and our platform supports them regardless of the publication model. Even the traditional non-CP journals now have a "publish ahead of print" content area where pre-print articles are published on the site before they are "printed" — which in this case "printed" means "collected into an issue" with a table of contents, but no actual hardcopies are produced.

In the case of Datamation, I see a table of contents on the home page. I see specific content sections such as http://www.datamation.com/cloud-computing/ showing an historical list of articles published in that section. I see articles highlighted as editor's picks and top stories. I see an editorial column (and it's called a column) featuring guest author commentaries. These are features one would expect from an online magazine that uses a continuous publication model. While it is true they don't have traditional volumes and issues like they would have had in the print days, volumes and issues (and page numbers for that matter) are unnecessary constructs in the world of online publishing. The term "magazine" has carried over into that world, and I see no reason to discontinue using it. ~Anachronist (talk) 06:06, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

I disagree but I said I would abide by the third opinion, so I have restored it to the page. Pinkbeast (talk) 15:04, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Anachronist for you clear and concise review. As I wrote, by 2050 all magazines will be ePub and none will be printed on paper. It may even be the case that the word Magazine will no longer be used. One last question you might wish to address. Since ePub Journals and Magazines, etc. are usually updated more often than a printed journal or magazine, they have become more weekly or even daily (somewhat like a newspaper) so where do they fall? I can see in the future the use of monthly or weekly falling out of use and all ePubs being 24/7. What is your opinion? Sirswindon (talk) 15:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Pinkbeast: I've given over a hundred third opinions and I have always tried to ground them in Wikipedia policies or guidelines. This opinion was an exception — we don't really have a policy or guideline covering the semantics of what to call an online publication, as far as I know. So I had to fall back on my professional experience. The only advice I can offer that is based on Wikipedia policy is to figure out how independent sources describe Datamation. If that information isn't available, then the next best thing is to fall back on the primary source and describe Datamation the way they describe themselves, which is a magazine.

This is really just a semantic argument. The publishing industry is taking a long time to adjust to the internet age. Old terminology will by necessity either find new meanings or be abandoned. I believe that the term "magazine" is far from being abandoned, but its meaning is surely evolving and not set in stone. ~Anachronist (talk) 21:20, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Again I do thank you for your level-headed approach to the question. It is individuals like you that make WIKIPEDIA such a valuable resource. Sirswindon (talk) 00:38, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

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