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Talk:List of International Society for Krishna Consciousness gurus

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Latest comment: 15 years ago by Wikidas in topic Non notable list
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Latest comment: 15 years ago8 comments2 people in discussion

I believe I made a mistake, trying to add a list of ISKCON Initiating Gurus who are not Sannyasis... please advise. mahabhagavat.sda

Hi Wikidas, I noted you removed this article and redirected it citing "No notability to the list itself and no independent reliable source to verify." I am new to Wikipedia but I feel that this article should stand for the following reasons: - A list of religious leaders is surely notable as can be seen here: List of living cardinals. - I cited my source as the official website of the ISKCON Sanyassi Ministry, which is the only independent reliable source to publish a list of ISKCON Sannyasis. Please explain why you disagree? --Tintomat0es (talk) 12:37, 6 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

The list of living cardinals seems notable, list of iskcon sannyasis not notable, meaning Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL compare with Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL, btw there is a difference between the living, current and former sannyasis, it was not reflected on the list (of whome majoriti is not notable). I would not suggest sannyasis are of equal status to cardinals in RCC - not every sannyasi can have an article on Wiki as some do not have sufficient media or third party coverage at all. Wikidas© 14:13, 6 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
Wikidas, Quantity of sources is not a criteria for WP:N ("It is important to note that a notability determination does not necessarily depend on things like fame, importance, or the popularity of a topic" and "Avoid criteria based on search engine statistics (e.g., Google hits)" and "When using Google to help establish the notability of a topic, evaluate the quality, not the quantity, of the links.") nor WP:BIO ("The topic of an article should be notable, or "worthy of notice"; that is, "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded."") According to WP:SALAT "Selected lists of people should be selected for importance/notability in that category and should have Wikipedia articles (or the reasonable expectation of an article in the future)." All ISKCON Sannyasis are notable within the category of ISKCON and one can reasonably expect that over time all will have individual articles. I believe you agree that many of the names on the list are notable. Further an incomplete list also permits that there is no requirement for every member of a list to be notable for the list itself to be notable enough to publish. All the Sannyasis are notable for their relevance and importance to the category ISKCON and do not necessarily deserve their own articles: "Lists may include people who are notable for a single event or activity and therefore do not have their own article, if they are of particular importance in the context of this event or activity." Your assertion that a list of ISKCON Sannyasis is less notable than a list of Roman Catholic Cardinals is somewhat subjective. According to WP:WPLIST#Incomplete_lists some lists may justifiably remain incomplete for some time. Also, per WP:OSE, religious lists such as the following contain more red names than blue names, and certainly some are far less notable than a list of current ISKCON Sannyasis: Disciples of `Abdu'l-Bahá; List_of_Buddhists; List_of_Buddhists#Historical_Buddhist_thinkers_and_founders_of_schools; List_of_Protestant_missionaries_in_China; List_of_Abunas_of_Ethiopia; List_of_Algonquin_Chiefs; List_of_Protestant_Reformers. Further this list falls under WP:HINDU/V as ISKCON Sannyasis are relevant and notable within this category. --Tintomat0es (talk) 22:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
You can as well try for a list of monks. In a group of under a 100k list of the monks is notable, but not for Wiki, moreover you are not proposing including all ISKCON sannyasis, but only the small current and living group. There is already one ISKCON members list and I suggest improving that one with notable people. Are you proposing including Alanath swami, Kirtanananda Swami etc - since they were ISKCON sannyasis? Wikidas© 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
I am not proposing a list of monks. ISKCON is the category and it concerns a group of people larger than 100k, both currently and historically, and all of the current Sannyasis are notable within this category. The list is indeed all ISKCON Sannyasis as published by ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry, in the same way that Disciples of `Abdu'l-Bahá is the list of all 19 Heralds of the Covenant whilst only two of them are notable enough to warrant individual articles. Past Sannyasis are not in the scope of the list. Notable past Sannyasis may appear in Category:Former_International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness_religious_figures. List of ISKCON members and patrons serves a different purpose as it includes non-Sannyasis, further its introduction only allows for notable members whereas my proposed list is incomplete and may include currently unnotable Sannyasis. I am not proposing to include Alanath or Kirtanananda as they are not current ISKCON Sannyasis. I agree to rename my proposed list from "List of ISKCON Sannyasis" to "List of current ISKCON Sannyasis" and to put the incomplete list tag and to remove the website links. If it's ok with you I am moving this talk to the List's discussion page. --Tintomat0es (talk) 06:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
Sannyasi means a monk in ISKCON (a life long dedicated celibate or a male person who "promised" not to marry). I disagree that you can claim that the list is incomplete or is based on a third party source, as it is the requirement for all biographical materials relating to living people. You keep making a references in the style well other lists like that exist -- please read WP:ININ -- it will answer your question. This approach is wrong. It is your obligation to ensure the sources you use are good, subject is notable and it complies with WP:BLP with special attention to being supported by very good sources. So far it fail WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:BLP and thus was nominated for deletion. Wikidas© 08:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
Sannyasi does not mean monk. If you want to define sannyasi in English using words of Christian origin, then a better transliteration/comparison is: sannyasi is to bishop or cardinal as brahmacharya is to monk. I don't keep making references to WP:OTHERSTUFF, I made references to WP:OSE which clearly states that the policy can be used effectively to assess precedent and consistency. This discussion is subjective so you should not assert that my approach is wrong - I could equally assert that your misquoting me is wrong but it's better to remain positive in these discussions. This is not WP:OR, primary source (ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry) is valid to support content and has been referenced in many ISKCON-related WP articles. See AFD for the rest of the discussion.--Tintomat0es (talk) 15:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
Nope. Sannyasi is a monk, brahmacari in ISKCON is a 'celibate priest in training', who can become a monk 'sannyasi' or a married man, both of whom can be bishops or cardinals, ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry is not notable and can only be used as a supporting source, sannyasis in ISKCON do not carry management of the ISKCON duties. The tags on primary sources will be added to the article until proper independend sources are found or article is deleted. It is duty of one who adds the material to ensure that source is a reliable source independent of the subject (in this case not by ISKCON sannyasis). Wikidas© 19:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

Non notable list

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Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

See blow redlinks. Once article created and notability accessed - items from below can be added to the main page with references to years etc., Wikidas© 10:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

Name Year of First Initiation Year of Sannyasa Initiation
A. C. Bhaktivaibhava Swami [1]    
Atmanivedana Swami [2]    
Bhakti Bhusana Swami [3]    
Bhakti Caitanya Swami   1994[original research?]
Bhakti Charu Swami 1977 1977[original research?]
Bhakti Dhira Damodara Swami 1983[original research?]  
Bhakti Gaurava Narayana Swami [4]   2003[original research?]
Bhakti Narasimha Swami   2008
Bhakti Purusottama Swami [5]    
Bhakti Raghava Swami [6]    
Bhakti Sharan Shanta Goswami [7]    
Bhakti Sundar Swami [8]    
Bhakti Vasudeva Swami [9]    
Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami [10]    
Bhakti Vighna Vinasa Narasimha Swami [11]    
Bhakti Vijaya Parivarjak Swami [12]    
Bhakti Vijnana Goswami [13]    
Bhakti Vikasa Swami [14] 1975 1989
Bhakti Vinoda Swami [15]    
Bhakti Vishramba Madhava Swami [16]    
Bhakti Vrajendranandana Swami [17]    
Bhakti Vyasa Tirtha Swami [18]    
Bhakti-Bhrnga Govinda Swami [19]    
Bhaktimarga Swami [20]    
Bhaktisiddhanta Swami [21]    
Bhanu Swami [22]    
Bharati Swami [23]    
Bir Krishna Goswami [24]   1978
Candra Mauli Swami [25]    
Candra Mukha Swami [26]    
Chandra Shekhara Swami [27] 1976  
Danavir Goswami [28] 1971[original research?]  
Devamrita Swami 1974 1982
Dhanvantari Swami [29]    
Ganapati Swami [30]    
Gauranga Prema Swami [31]    
Giridhari Swami [32]    
Giriraja Swami 1969[original research?] 1977[citation needed]
Gopala Krishna Goswami    
Gunagrahi Goswami [33]    
Guru Prasada Swami [34]   1982 [original research?]
Hanumatpresaka Swami    
Hridayananda dasa Goswami 1970[citation needed] 1972[original research?]
Indradyumna Swami    
Janananda Goswami [35]    
Jayadvaita Swami 1968[citation needed] 1978[original research?]
Jayapataka Swami 1968 1970[original research?]
Kadamba Kanana Swami   1997[original research?]
Kavicandra Swami [36]   1982[original research?]
Kesava Bharati dasa Goswami [37]    
Krishna dasa Swami [38]    
Lokanath Swami [39]    
Mahanidhi Swami [40]    
Mahavishnu Goswami [41] 1981[citation needed] 1991[citation needed]
Mahavishnu Swami [42] 1971[citation needed] 1984[citation needed]
Mukunda Goswami 1966[citation needed]  
Navayogendra Swami [43] 1974[citation needed] 1975[original research?]
Niranjana Swami [44] 1974[citation needed] 1986[original research?]
Param Gati Swami 1976[citation needed] 1982[original research?]
Partha Sarathi Das Goswami [45]    
Prabhavishnu Swami [46]    
Prabodhananda Sarasvati Swami [47]    
Prahladananda Swami 1969[citation needed] 1982[original research?]
Purnacandra Goswami [48]    
Purusatraya Swami [49]    
Radha Govinda Swami [50]    
Radha Ramana Swami [51]    
Radhanath Swami 1973[citation needed] 1982[citation needed]
Rama Govinda Swami [52]    
Ramai Swami    
Romapada Swami 1971[citation needed] 1983[citation needed]
Rtadhvaja Swami [53]    
Sacinandana Swami   1989[original research?]
Santo Swami [54]    
Satsvarupa dasa Goswami    
Sivarama Swami 1973[citation needed] 1979[original research?]
Smita Krishna Swami   1986[citation needed]
Subhag Swami [55]    
Sukadeva Swami [56]    
Svayambhu Swami [57]    
Trivikrama Swami [58] 1966[citation needed] 1972[citation needed]
Umapati Swami [59]    
Varsana Swami [60]    
Vedavyasa Priya Swami    
Yadunandana Swami   2009
Notes
  1. ^ Tattvavit Das. "Krishna Scenes in Bulgaria", Krishna.com, undated. Link
  2. ^ UK Bureau, Press Trust Of India. "House of Commons host gala Janamashtami celebrations", Hindustan Times, January 3, 2007. Link
  3. ^ Staff Writer. "Thank You to Our 2005 Supporters", ISKCON Child Protection Office Newsletter, February 2006. Link
  4. ^ Staff Writer. "Visit of HH Bhakti Gaurava Narayana Swami on 15-27/08/2008", ISKCON Hong Kong, August 2008. Link
  5. ^ Gopijana. "Bhagavata-sparsa course begins in Mayapur", ISKCON Mayapur, June 2, 2009. Link
  6. ^ Goldhar, Kathleen. "He walks from BC for Festival of Chariots", Toronto Star, July 21, 1996. Link
  7. ^ Anandi das, "Live broadcast from Lithuanian winter sat-sanga festival", ISKCON Mayapur, January 10, 2009. Link
  8. ^ Staff Writer, "His Holiness Bhakti Sundar Swami visiting Pittsburgh", ISKCON Pittsburgh, July 13, 2009. Link
  9. ^ Okafor, Obidike. "Artist as a reporter", 234next.com, May 15, 2009. Link
  10. ^ Swami, Lokanath.: Festivals: Srila Prabhupada at the Mayapur-Vr?ndavana festivals, page 132. Padayatra Press, 2001. Link
  11. ^ Webmaster. "Bhakti Vighna Vinasa Narasimha Swami", Mayapur Institute for Higher Education and Training, September 9, 2009. Link
  12. ^ ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry. "ISKCON Sannyasis April 15, 2009", ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry, April 15, 2009. Link
  13. ^ Staff Writer. "He Went From Biology to Bhakti", The Moscow Times, November 15, 2002. Link
  14. ^ Staff Writer. "Iskcon organises jatra at Necklace Road", The Times of India, June 2, 2003. Link
  15. ^ Staff Writer. "Sannyasa order to His Grace Sarva Aishvarya Prabhu", ISKCON Coimbatore, April 23, 2009. Link
  16. ^ Das, Basu Ghosh. "Iskcon Baroda's 21st Annual Sri Jagannath Rathayatra", Vaishnav News Network, July 18, 2002. Link
  17. ^ Staff Writer. "Nutshell: Rath yatra", The Hindu, December 28, 2007. Link
  18. ^ Staff Writer. "Damodar`s earthly remains consigned to flames at Radhakunda", The Imphal Free Press, October 4. Link
  19. ^ HRWF International. "Events in Brussels", Advocacy in Brussels, December 11, 2006. Link
  20. ^ Panapasa, Geraldine. "Monk walks around Fiji", Fiji Times, August 25, 2009. Link
  21. ^ ISKCON GBC. "MINUTES OF THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING", Dandavats, February 24, 1997. Link
  22. ^ Staff Writer. "Police chief flags off Jagannath rath yatra", The Hindu, January 14, 2006. Link
  23. ^ Swami, Bhakti Tirtha.: Reflections on Sacred Teachings Volume 5. Hari-Nama Press, 2002. Link
  24. ^ Icon Group International, Inc.: Discipling: Webster's Quotations, Facts and Phrases, page 322. Icon Group International, Inc, 2008. Link
  25. ^ Wilson, Terry. "OUT OF PUBLIC EYE", Chicago Tribune, January 24, 1997. Link
  26. ^ Staff Writer. "Festival of India Starts Next Week", Parana Online, April 20, 2009. Link
  27. ^ ISKCON GBC. "MINUTES OF THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING", Dandavats, February 24, 1997. Link
  28. ^ Bavley, Alan. "Students take learning to new level at Hare Krishna seminary", Kansas City Star, October 25, 2000. Link
  29. ^ Staff Writer. "Hare Krishnas celebrate New Year preaching religious equality", Pernambuco.com, March 14, 2009. Link
  30. ^ Sanzaro, Francis. "Krishnas promote 'higher education'", The Rocky Mountain Collegian, August 22, 2001. Link
  31. ^ Staff Writer. "Congregational preaching - Hare Krishna Nama-Hatta", ISKCON Mayapur, undated. Link
  32. ^ Dasa, Kalakantha. "Worldwide ISKCON Preaching Grows", Vaishnava News Network, February 11, 1999. Link
  33. ^ Staff Writer. "Hare Krishna in", Los Angeles Times, May 2, 1986. Link
  34. ^ Santiago, Anabel. "It gives their religion a reason for being", Reforma, March 29, 2003. Link
  35. ^ Smullen, Madhava. "ISKCON Penang - “A Temple Like This”", ISKCON News Weekly, October 18, 2008. Link
  36. ^ Staff Writer. "The Late Bhakti Tirtha Swami Honored at ISKCON Mayapur", ISKCON News Weekly, March 8, 2009. Link
  37. ^ Website staff. "Faculty and Advisors", Bhaktivedanta College, undated. Link
  38. ^ Smullen, Madhava. "The Battle for Bhaktivedanta Manor", ISKCON News Weekly, November 22, 2008. Link
  39. ^ Staff Writer. "Spiritual talk", ExpressIndia.com, January 12, 2003. Link
  40. ^ Misra, Neelesh. "Janmashtami Celebrations: A Deep Faith in Land of Krishna", India Abroad, August 25, 1995. Link
  41. ^ Jagat Purush Das. "Baroda Temple Inauguration Festival Report". Vaishnava News Network, September 14, 1999. Link
  42. ^ Staff Writer. "Lord Krishna devotees take part in `Rath Yatra'", The Times of India, June 25, 2009. Link
  43. ^ ISKCON GBC. "Zonal Assignments 2007", Dandavats, February 2007. Link
  44. ^ Chander, Vineet. "Is Madhava the Voice of a New Generation?", ISKCON News Weekly, September 4, 2008. Link
  45. ^ Jagarnauth, Rupa. "South Africa Experiences 21 Years of Jagannatha's Festival", ISKCON News Weekly, April 25, 2009. Link
  46. ^ Staff Writer. "Prabhavishnu Swami", The Tao & Van Hoa, May 16, 2008. Link
  47. ^ Website staff. "English lectures 2009", ISKCON Vrindavan, August 19, 2009. Link
  48. ^ ISKCON GBC. "MINUTES OF THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING", Dandavats, February 24, 2008. Link
  49. ^ Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.: Back to Godhead, page 53, v31-32. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, 1997. Link
  50. ^ New York ISKCON. "New York Ratha Yatra 2003", Vaishnava News Network, July 3, 2003. Link
  51. ^ Jayapataka Swami. "Inauguration of ISKCON - Tirupati", Dandavats, January 30, 2007. Link
  52. ^ ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry. "ISKCON Sannyasis April 15, 2009", ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry, April 15, 2009. Link
  53. ^ Hussin, Tim. "Hare Krishna wedding ceremony attracts hundreds", The Independent Florida Alligator, October 24, 2005. Link
  54. ^ ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry. "ISKCON Sannyasis April 15, 2009", ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry, April 15, 2009. Link
  55. ^ Tusti Mohan Krishna Das. "ISKCON Devotees Feed Thousands at Shantipur Festival", ISKCON News Weekly, March 21, 2009. Link
  56. ^ Staff Writer. "Stone laid for Krishna temple", The Hindu, August 22, 2006. Link
  57. ^ Sri Caitanya Das. ""Legalizing" HH Murali Krsna Swami's Sannyasa", Sampradaya Sun, December 16, 2007. Link
  58. ^ Borowik, Irena and Babinski, Grzegorz.: New religious phenomena in Central and Eastern Europe. Zaklad Wydawn, "NOMOS", 1997. Link
  59. ^ McCarty, Clint and Hinson, Dan. "Other news to note", Orlando Sentinel, August 6, 1987. Link
  60. ^ Snodgrass, Mary Ellen.: Religious Sites in America: A Reference Guide, page 266. ABC-CLIO, 2000. Link[failed verification]
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