Talk:List of disasters on the Severn

Drownings

Is it really necessary to list individual drownings? Tragic, but hardly notable. – Tivedshambo (talk) 21:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

In the absense of any discussion, I've removed a number of non-notable drowning incidents. – Tivedshambo (talk) 16:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Scope

How is the River Severn and the Severn Estuary being defined for this article? What about "disasters" in the Bristol Channel? Would HMS Montagu (1901) on Lundy in 1906 or the scuttling of the Nightingale in 1747 on the island be included? What about various Flat_Holm#Shipwrecks on Flat Holm? Should there be a link to List of shipwrecks in the Bristol Channel and some agreement about what falls into each one?— Rod ^talk 12:22, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Good question. I'd say that the Second Severn Bridge should be the cut-off point. Upstream being the Severn, downstream being the Severn Estuary, which would mean the above mentioned incidents are not covered. Mjroots (talk) 04:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Caersws 1868

It seems there have been two attempts to write this entry. I have a source which varies from both of those:

The driver was killed, too, when an engine was derailed at Caersws in 1868, due to part of the embankment being washed away.

• Kidner, R.W. (1992) [1954]. The Cambrian Railways. The Oakwood Library of Railway History (2nd ed.). Headington: Oakwood Press. p. 82. ISBN 0 85361 439 3. OL55.

No mention of a bridge collapse, nor of the fireman being killed. If the fireman had died, that would have been mentioned since the paragraph deals with staff fatalities: the preceding sentence (Abermule 1861) has "both footplate men were killed", and the succeeding sentence (Friog 1883) begins "Once again driver and fireman were killed". Kidner is generally a WP:RS. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But then again...

the Severn ... rose in flood in February 1868 so quickly that the driver of an early morning up goods train found, when descending the long gradient from Talerddig to beyond Carno, that the floodwater was almost up to the footplate, and well on the way to putting out the fire. But it did not, and the wooden bridge over the Severn at Caersws was found to be holding, so the train reached its destination at Newtown safely. On the return journey, however, when the train was gingerly approaching the bridge along its approach embankment, the engine suddenly toppled right over. Although the bridge remained sound, floodwater had scoured away the embankment. Driver and fireman were killed.

• Ransom, P.J.G. (2001). Snow, Flood and Tempest: Railways & Natural Disasters. Hersham: Ian Allan. p. 106. ISBN 0 7110 2833 8. 0111/B2. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

So, which is correct? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

• Ransom's account makes more sense. It could be more accurate due to further research in the 50-odd years since Kidner's book was published. Mjroots (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

• Of course, the best source would be newspapers published in the area at the time. Anyone in that area who cares to make a trip to the library? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjroots (talk • contribs) 07:16, 20 May 2010

Found another:

For similar reasons [freak storms] the old Cambrian Railway had its troubles on its route through the mountains of central Wales between Moat Lane and Machynlleth. On one occasion a sudden flood undermined the approach embankment to the bridge over the Severn at Caersws during the night, causing the wreck of an early morning goods train and the death of the engine crew.

• Rolt, L.T.C.; Kichenside, Geoffrey (1982) [1955]. "Bridge Failures - Storm and Tempest". Red for Danger (4th ed.). Newton Abbot: David & Charles. p. 106. ISBN 0 7153 8362 0.

Not really much, but we were asked to check Red for Danger. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

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