Talk:List of edge cities

As I understand what's being told here as an Edge City, I can't see Canary Wharf in London fitting here, looks more to me like a normal (albeit big) revelopment inside a city district...

I added Rivas in Madrid... goin from 500inhabs. to 100.000 in just 30 years :S

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.155.180.175 (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

where does this list come from? many of these cities have been cities for at least a century. why are they on this list?

At least for the United States Section, the list is basically every possible edge city from Garreau's book. However, not all of these have actually become edge cities according to Garreau's own definition (see the main article). Indeed most of these are simply large suburban bedroom communities. In DC, for example, Bethesda and Tyson's Corner are certainly edge cities, but Greenbelt is not even a very large or important bedroom community. The American Section must be reduced dramatically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.253.60.183 (talk) 20:17, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

From personal knowledge of Nashville, I would consider the Cool Springs (TN) area to be more worthy of the "edge city" title than Murfreesboro, which is a free-standing college town and has been for nearly 100 years, and has been a municipality for nearly 200. Cool Springs, on the other hand, is divided roughly between the two Nashville suburbs of Brentwood and Franklin and is not incorporated as a municipality, yet has its own Chamber of Commerce. It consists mainly of office parks and retail space, and grew from a shopping mall that opened in 1991 near an I-65 interchange that was created specifically for the mall. I am not certain that it has hit the mark in terms of office space that Garreau specified (five million square feet), but if not, is likely on pace to do so in the near future. Cool Springs is more akin to the "Greater Woodfield" area around Schaumburg, IL than anything else, if not quite to the same scale.Cfclark 16:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If there is a source indicating it has more jobs than employed residents, feel free to add it in. --Polaron | Talk 20:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

No, please do not, there are several criteria to be considered an edge city as opposed to simply a constricted CBD. If employment numbers were the only factor many older cities like Norfolk, VA would be edge cities which they clearly are not. An edge city is a unique modern construct of the automobile age, it exists as an urban nucleus without consideration of any inhabitant other then the vehicle. These are cities built for the automobile that are empty after 10pm, with the reinvigoration of new urbanism, the areas meeting the requirements of an edge city is falling, not rising. Current trends will show the edge city counts in the US peaking in the late 90's. Consider all the points of criteria before adding your city, there are VERY few cities that could be added that were not on the original list and some of those that were on the original list need removed as those places have matured.Miglewis (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

From having personal experience with the Cool Springs area, it would honestly be one of the better examples of an "edge city" on this list. It's basically three or four consecutive freeway exits surrounded by ten-story office towers, a quite large shopping mall, many dozens of peripheral shopping/dining establishments, and very little in the way of traditional neighborhoods or single-family homes. Down the road in Murfreesboro, there's the Medical Center Parkway development which is clearly an effort to mimic Cool Springs, even if it hasn't (and probably won't) reached that level yet. It certainly fits the definition than most of the rest of this list, which are simply large suburbs or satellite anchors. (e.g. Hoboken and Yonkers are not "edge cities" of NYC.) Thunderbunny (talk) 01:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

San Diego

I deleted La Jolla since it is actually part of the City of San Diego and therefore can't be a separate edge city. Places like Chula Vista and Del Mar might be better fits.

Actually, Edge Cities quite explicitly have nothing to do with municipal boundaries. West LA, Century City, Warner Center, and Sherman Oaks are Edge Cities even though they are (mostly) within the limits of the City of Los Angeles. The John Wayne Airport - South Coast Plaza complex is an Edge City inhabiting the intersection of four independent municipalities: Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, Newport Beach, and Irvine. Garreau includes La Jolla in his seminal list (he calls it "North City" and centers it around UCSD). EmergentProperty (talk) 03:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yikes!

It appears that someone here completely overhauled this list while confusing "edge city" with "anchor city." In an effort to restore at least some truth to this list, I've tried to restore what was previously there based on what's on Google Earth and in Garreau's book. Svalbard in winter 13:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

...and watch as it gets mercilessly deleted. Svalbard in winter 14:01, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Principal cities are either the largest city of a metro area or additional cities where the number of jobs exceeds the number of employed residents. Just cite a source indicating that this is the case for any additional cities. Anything will do really. But we should not let unsourced additions stand or else the list will become an unverifiable mess. Note that the OMB does not define what an anchor city is. --Polaron | Talk 14:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Let me be picky: a principal city is not the same as an edge city. A principal city falls under your definition. What constitutes an edge city are the five definitions in Garreau's book. For example, Reading, Pennsylvania is not an edge city because it has been around way longer than 1960. In contrast, Tysons Corner, Virginia is an edge city (according to Garreau multiple times in the book) that is not a principal city. Svalbard in winter 14:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Then remove those that don't qualify, as long as those that get added have some kind of citation. --Polaron | Talk 14:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

That's fine. But could we see some kind of citation showing that the principal cities listed here are also edge cities? (i.e. five million square feet of office space, 600,000 square feet of retail space, farmland in 1960, etc.) Svalbard in winter 15:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think I'm definitely going to have to agree with Svalbard in winter here. Edge cities are based on criteria defined in Joel Garreau's 1991 book Edge City. That is that the cities have to be new...i.e. farmland in 1960, they have to be major job centers (5 mil sq. ft. of office space), and they have to have malls (600,000 sq. ft. of retail space). Thus, we shouldn't be adding old industrial anchor cities like Gary, Indiana to the list unless they have developed enough suburban-style office buildings and malls on the fringe since 1960 to qualify. However, there have been plenty of new edge cities that have cropped up since 1991 that fit Garreau's criteria for an edge city, and those should be added. Also keep in mind that many edge cities are suburban agglomerations that overlap many municipal jurisdictions, follow corridors, and the like, and aren't just one particular city alone. So, when I put Schaumburg/Hoffman Estates on here, don't delete it.

Something helpful to do would maybe get a copy of Garreau's book, and limit the list strictly to the examples he listed and source it, and require all additional cities to have sources that proves it passes the 5 mil. sq. ft/600k sq. ft. retail/farmland in 1960 test. Abog 20:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Name of article

Based on the concern about worldwide view, maybe rename this article to "List of edge cities in the United States." YechielMan 23:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Am trying to fix that. I got Paris, France and Toronto, Canada up there right now, all sourced. Svalbard in winter 00:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Clearer Definition

I live in Stamford, Connecticut and though it meets some criteria such as amount of office and retail space, it is an ex-manufacturing city, chemicals are still produced there to this day and it had an urban population in the 20s and 30s, well before the 1960s definition. Ditto for neighboring Norwalk, Connecticut and probably many other cities on this list.

All page references (e.g. p. 113) are from Garreau's book Edge City. That said...

According to Garreau, Stamford is an "Uptown," (p. 113) an edge city that was historically a bedroom community, so Stamford still qualifies as an edge city despite having an urban population since the 20s. When Garreau says that an edge city location "was by no means urban" (p. 425) in 1960, he means that, at that date, it didn't have a downtown befitting a city much larger. Hope this helps. Svalbard in winter 19:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

On Aerotropoli

Should aerotropoli also be included in this list? It seems like they fit the criteria for an Edge City... Svalbard in winter 20:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Philadelphia cleanup

I agree with Svalbard above...people are getting "edge city" confused with "anchor city", "exurb", "suburb", etc. The unsourced entries probably need to be removed. One in particular which I removed, Camden NJ, is pretty much the exact opposite of an edge city; it was a major residential and commercial center more than 50 years ago, but today is an ultra-blighted poor city that lacks even a grocery store. People need to read Garreau's criteria before wantonly adding cities to the list. Thunderbunny 02:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Further cleaned up and Delaware edge cities added! Heff01 (talk) 11:09, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Orange County Edge Cities

Many of the cities under Los Angeles are simply cities in Orange County, many of which have edge-city areas, but certainly should not be called edge cities themselves. For example, Newport Center, surrounding the Fashion Island shopping center in Newport Beach probably fits the criteria as an edge city, but Newport Beach itself is a 100-year-old affluent suburban/beach community. I am modifying the list appropriately. 208.252.212.2 (talk) 20:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)Dtordini

Anaheim, Santa Ana, and Irvine are definitely not edge cities.2601:640:4001:266C:BD7D:357F:E872:2112 (talk) 15:41, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Saint Petersburg is NOT an edge city.

Here's why:

1: Saint Pete was incorporated in 1892. 2: Its population boom was before the 1960's. 3: For a while, it was larger than Tampa

Saint Petersburg would better be described as a smaller twin city in a multiple anchor city metropolitan area, due to its founding, its population and its importance.

ColdRedRain (talk) 07:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, people are just adding any suburb of a principle city to this lists, just because a suburb has grown, it is not an edge city. Every area that cannot be shown to qualify according to the criteria or is specifically mentioned by the author should be removed. Case in point, Rockville, MD while experiencing a population increase of 36K during the day, was a well traveled and popular town in 1776 and expanded dramatically in 1784, hardly a new city. Most city cores increase in population by day, the other criteria must also be met. Miglewis (talk) 20:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Atlanta

Need citation for Gwinnett Place Mall. It is no larger an office/shopping district than Windward (Alpharetta) and Town Center (Kennessaw). Add citation and then re-add. Furthermore, does anyone know whether Windward and Town Center qualify Netdragon (talk) 23:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, midtown and Buckhead don't count because they are core city. I don't know why I-285 and I-85 were added. Highways don't qualify as edge cities since they don't have a sense of place - they are a strip that span many communities Netdragon (talk) 23:42, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Denver Area

Can anyone provide citations for the edge cities in Denver? I in particular would like to dispute Englewood as it is an old streetcar suburb of Denver established in 1860. ~ Mikeshoup (talk) 21:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Lehigh Valley

I am from the Lehigh Valley and I appreciate the efforts of a past editor. The suburbs included were hardly cities and so I had to delete my own region's section. The Lehigh Valley remains in the NYC portion and maintains an identity of its own as Pennsylvania's third-largest metro area. Heff01 (talk) 11:12, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

A number of examples in this list are emerging edge cities, including in Pennsylvania. Heff01 (talk) 07:18, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

I added the US perspective tag not to discourage additional US examples, but to encourage examples in other nations. Heff01 (talk) 22:12, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Allentown, Bethlehem, and Easton do not fit the criteria for "edge cities." They are distinct cities with traditional central business districts. Whitehall may be an edge city of Allentown/Bethlehem but it is certainly not an edge city of New York. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xaviersch (talk • contribs) 18:49, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Edge cities in sf/oakland/san jose bay area

This list pretty much includes most of the cities in the bay area. There has to be some distiction. I can't see Mountain View or Palo Alto, or even Santa Clara, being edge cities because they are in the heart of Silicon Valley.2601:640:4001:266C:BD7D:357F:E872:2112 (talk) 15:39, 26 September 2015 (UTC) 2601:640:4001:266C:BD7D:357F:E872:2112 (talk) 15:39, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Croydon

I've gone ahead and deleted Croydon from the list as it doesn't fit the criteria. It's just a handily-placed suburb that found itself with a lot of shops. Huwlepolonais2 (talk) 19:37, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

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Removed unsourced items

Over the years, there has been a lot of observation in this Talk page that the list of edge cities includes a lot of unsourced items, which are simply the names of the suburbs (presumably, suburbs which contain edge cities or part of edge cities). Also, there is a statement that "some of the suburbs in this list are edge cities because they qualify under other criteria" and that statement is backed up by a reference that is an entire high school geography book, which I checked and it only briefly mentions edge cities as an existent term. This list needs to go back to the original edge cities named by Garreau, plus additional entries which have a valid, reliable source stating that the edge city is a center of employment (e.g. office space) and is not part of a traditional downtown. I will go ahead and be WP:BOLD and delete the items on the list that don't qualify (actually, "comment them out", that is, hide them, but keep the source code in case it proves useful for later edits). Keizers (talk) 13:31, 1 July 2019 (UTC)