Talk:List of flag bearers for Armenia at the Olympics

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@Archives908: The counting starts from 1 and ends with 16 in chronological order. Pelmeen10 (talk) 21:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

As it should be- the country has made 16 appearances at the Olympic games in total (Summer & Winter games combined). I've removed the tag because there is no real issue here. Otherwise, please elaborate your concerns in greater detail here before you re-add the tag a third time. If it's a minor fix, I don't mind helping. But as far as I can see, there is no problems with the numbering on the table. Archives908 (talk) 21:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

chronological means:

• 1 (1994)
• 2 (1996)
• ...
• 16 (2024)

So the wikitable needs to be reordered from the first appearance to the last. Example List of flag bearers for Vietnam at the Olympics. Pelmeen10 (talk) 22:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Exactly- it is already listed chronologically. You just have an issue with the order of it. You prefer it to be listed top down oldest to newest, rather than the current form of of bottom up oldest to newest. However, there is no wiki policy which states these should be listed as you are suggesting. Take a look at List of flag bearers for Greece at the Olympics, List of flag bearers for Bulgaria at the Olympics, and List of flag bearers for Samoa at the Olympics. The vast majority of these articles are all the same and it is perfectly acceptable. Yet, you have added these tags to most of them for no real reason. Again, there is no policy violation for them to be listed bottom up in chronological order, so I have no clue why you're adding these tags... You should rvt your edits and seek WP:CON for this. Archives908 (talk) 23:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

There indeed is such policy MOS:CHRONO - Wikipedia:Stand-alone_lists#Chronological_ordering and these flagbearer articles all created by 1 user (Violetriga) have slipped the net. Until now. Pelmeen10 (talk) 00:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Just my perspective on the issue. I believe the reason so many of these flag bearer lists are ordered most-recent first is because the vast majority of them were created using the old, old sports-reference.com Olympic site, which listed the flag bearers with the most recent at the top in their website. See here for example. So in Violetriga's defense, they were just following the style in the source. Thing is, after SR shut down the Olympic site, the researchers that ran it started their own site Olympedia, and that site listed the flag bearers earliest at the top, see here which happens to be consistent with our guideline. (side note: Olympedia, the "new" site, is now basically defunct and no longer being updated as announced since the beginning of 2024)

When I was going through all these lists a couple years ago, trying to verify the list and resolve discrepancies, it was very confusing that those two sources had their lists flipped in relation to each other, despite evidently being created by the same individuals. Indeed the two sources being different was more confusing to me than our WP pages being upside down.

I seem to remember reading somewhere years ago, that someone had a script or something that could easily flip lists like this, but that's all I remember. DB1729^talk 00:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I understand you point, Pelmeen10. I assumed this policy was not applied intentionally for convenience sake. Considering there are hundreds of updates needed for every winter and summer games. The policy itself doesn't stipulate any guideline(s) on hard timeframes to switch the sequence of dates for articles which regularly get updated. In any case, this is a huge undertaking for whoever will update these tables, as there are hundreds of them and most of them are listed just like Armenia is. I will try and fix this specific article within a day or two, as for the others, hopefully editors step in to help. Archives908 (talk) 01:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Pelmeen10: Archives908, it is certainly going to be a huge undertaking, especially if trying preserve my dirty work of citing each entry. Before 2018, it would've been a lot easier, because all the entries were generally sourced to sports-reference.com. But as explained above, when that site shut down and stopped updating, everything after 2016 was unsourced. But that's when Olympedia took over, and in 2022 I started adding that source to all the recent entries, sometimes adding it to the top as a general reference, but mostly individually citing each entry using rowspan. After Olympedia shut down, I started citing individually all the post-2016 entries using the IOC list for recent games and "rowspanning" either Olympedia or SR for the rest.

Regardless it's going to be a tedious chore, but if you want to remove the older refs that are "rowspanned", to make it easier at first, I would be happy to come behind and either re-add them or do something else appropriate. DB1729^talk 01:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Archives908: Sorry Pelmeen10, I pinged you by accident. Archives908, my latest comment was intended for you. DB1729^talk 01:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

As a trial run, I flipped the list at List of flag bearers for American Samoa at the Olympics, here's the diff.[1] It actually didn't take as long as I thought, and handling the ref that spans 1994 thru 2016 was no big deal. Obviously longer lists are going to be more time consuming and tedious. I recommend to anyone trying to correct these lists to not try to do too much between previews. But honestly, I think I prefer doing them all myself. It's just going to take a while because real-life stuff is starting to eat into my free time more as we move into the fall months. DB1729^talk 02:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your valuable input @DB1729:. If it is your preference to fix them yourself, I will refrain from interfering. Tables are not my strong suite anyways, so it's probably best someone with greater proficiency handles them. Thank you for your efforts on the Samoa article, it looks great! Shall I place the tag back for this Armenia article until yourself or someone else gets to it? Regards, Archives908 (talk) 03:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Archives908: I just went ahead and fixed that list just now,[2] so not necessary. Just to clarify my poor wording. I meant I would prefer to fix them myself, as opposed to my first rather clumsy idea of someone removing the refs to make flipping them easier, and then me re-adding the refs later. That was more me just thinking out loud. Not saying any help wouldn't be appreciated, but I really am happy to do them all myself:) DB1729^talk 04:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much, it is appreciated! Cheers, Archives908 (talk) 22:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)