Talk:List of genocides/Archive 14

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Archive 14

Should the Dungan Revolt 1862-1877 be added?

the war saw a decline of an ethnic group in China. The population declined by 21 million from war related deaths and famine and displacement. TaipingRebellion1850 (talk) 17:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

It can be added if there is good scholarship calling it a genocide. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Comparison between some lists on wikipedia

I was curious, so I threw together this little comparison chart of what genocides are included in a few lists we have on wikipedia:

List of genocides	Genocides in history Prior to WW1, WW1–WW2, 1946–1999, 2000–	Genocide navbox
	Neanderthal genocide
	Chiefdom genocides
	Destruction of Carthage
	Asiatic Vespers
	Julius Caesar's campaigns (Gauls (Eburones))
	Bar Kokhba revolt
	Jie and Wu Hu
	Zandaqa
	Ancestral Puebloans
	Harrying of the North
	Mongol Empire/Mongol conquests
Albigensian Crusade (Cathars)
	Tamerlane
	Guanches
	Mongols in the Delhi Sultanate
Taíno genocide
	Genocide of indigenous peoples in Brazil
	Kashmiri Shias
	Atlantic Slave Trade
	Genocide of the Huron
	Kalinago
	Pequots
	Great Gypsy Round-up
	Persecution of Huguenots
	Vendee
	War of the Three Kingdoms
	Khmelnytsky uprising
Dzungar genocide
		Chechens
1804 Haiti massacre
		Al-Jawazi massacre
		Siege of Tripolitsa
	Caste War of Yucatán
	Apaches
	Yaquis
	Indigenous Australian
Black War
Trail of Tears
Massacre of Salsipuedes (Charrúa)
	Zulu Kingdom under Shaka Zulu
	Beothuk
Moriori genocide
Queensland Aboriginal genocide
	Native American
	Native American genocide in the United States
	Indian removal
California genocide
	Sand Creek massacre
	1740 Batavia massacre
Circassian genocide
	Conquest of the Desert
	Taiping Rebellion
	Japanese colonization of Hokkaido
	Anti-Romani sentiment (Attempted extirpations of Romani/Gypsies)
Putumayo genocide
	Great Famine (Ireland)
	January Uprising § The decades of reprisals
	Genocide of indigenous peoples § Tsardom of Russia's conquest of Siberia
	British Raj
	Persecution of Yazidis
	Hazaras
	Massacres of Badr Khan
	Congo Free State
	Ethiopia under Menelik II
	French conquest of Algeria
	Colonial Philippines
Selk'nam genocide
Armenian massacres of 1894–1896
Herero and Nama genocide
	Maji Maji Rebellion Ukame
	Balkan Wars
	Persecution of Muslims during the Ottoman contraction
Massacres of Albanians in the Balkan Wars
Greek genocide
Pontic genocide		Pontic Greeks
Armenian genocide
	Diyarbekir
Sayfo
	Destruction of the Thracian Bulgarians in 1913
	Deportations of Kurds (1916–1934)
		Ingrian Finns
	Simele massacre
	Urkun
	Pogroms against Jews
	Decossackization
	Kantō Massacre
		Napalpí massacre
	Japanese colonial empire/ Japanese war crimes
	Musha Incident
Osage Indian murders
Libyan genocide
	Second Italo-Ethiopian War
	Kazakhstan
		La Matanza
Holodomor
	Ma Bufang against the Tibetans
Polish Operation of the NKVD
Parsley massacre
	Nanjing Massacre
Nazi crimes against the Polish nation
Romani Holocaust
		Three Alls policy
The Holocaust
German atrocities committed against Soviet prisoners of war
The Holocaust in Croatia
Genocide of Serbs
Genocide against Bosniaks and Croats by the Chetniks
		Sook Ching
		Nanshitou Massacre
	Volhynia
	Aktion T4
Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush
Deportation of the Crimean Tatars
	Deportations of Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians
	Massacres of Albanians in Yugoslavia
	Ethnic cleansing of Germans
	Partition of India
	Hyderabadi Muslims
	Sinicization of Tibet
	Stolen Generation
	Indigenous peoples in Paraguay
Guatemalan genocide
Zanzibar genocide
		1966 anti-Igbo pogrom
	Biafra (1966–1970)
	Genocide of Feyli Kurds
	Equatorial Guinea
	Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66
	West New Guinea/West Papua
Bangladesh genocide
	Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh
Genocide of Acholi and Lango people under Idi Amin	Idi Amin's regime
Ikiza (Burundi 1972)
	Hmong Genocide
East Timor genocide
	Derg
Cambodian genocide
	Chittagong Hill Tracts (Indigenous Chakmas)
Sabra and Shatila massacre
	Genocide of Afghans by Soviet Armed Forces and proxies
Gukurahundi
	Bush War (1981–1985)
Anfal genocide
Isaaq genocide
	Amhara genocide
Bosnian genocide
	Burundi 1993
Rwandan genocide
	Massacres of Hazaras and other groups by the Taliban
	Forced sterilization in Peru
Massacres of Hutus during the First Congo War
	Tamil genocide
	Chechnya
	Boko Haram and Fulani herdsman
Effacer le tableau
Darfur genocide
		Southern Kaduna
	Allegations of genocide against Uyghurs
Iraqi Turkmen genocide
Genocide of Yazidis by the Islamic State
	Shias under ISIS
	Christians under ISIS
Rohingya genocide
	South Sudan
	Yemen
	Ethiopia
	Accusations of genocide in Donbas
	Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine
	Nagorno-Karabakh
	Israel/Palestine

-- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that is very telling! Bondegezou (talk) 12:57, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. My feeling, especially after the change by @Cdjp1 to the definition of "genocide" used in this article, is that this list should be changed to a table with 1-line summaries of the genocides in the Genocides in history articles, so that the list can easily be sorted and searched. When there is an unsettled accusation of genocide (as there is for some ongoing or recent events) or a dispute in scholarship, or if some common definitions of genocide are met but not others, we can add a column or two to indicate that status. AndyBloch (talk) 21:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Long term, I hope to be able to unify the List of genocides, Genocides in history, and Genocide navbox, but this is a large undertaking, and as I have mentioned previously on this page, I do have a lot of IRL priorities so the unification effort is low on my to do list.

As a rough guide to steps, as I would follow,:

1. Any of the genocides listed in List of genocides should be added to Genocides in history
2. any citations for items in List of genocides should be added to the their relevant items in Genocides in history
3. items in Genocides in history should be checked over for any instances of citation needed and corrected (checking ideally through the journals Journal of Genocide Research, Genocide Studies and Prevention, Holocaust and Genocide Studies, and Genocide Studies International)
4. Once these have been completed I would move to adding entries into List of genocides for any items present in Genocides in history that are not already present in List of genocides.

-- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 May 2024

Hello! I would appreciate it if someone would comment out (place <!-- preceding and --> following) the list references (references within named <ref> tags listed in the {{reflist}} template) named "Milton1992", "USHMM2", and "AxisYugo" to fix unused list-defined reference errors. Thank you! – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 21:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done: I couldn't find the 'USHMM2' ref. Commented out the other 2. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 03:43, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! The USHMM2 ref is missing because it was removed between me posting the edit request and you acting on said edit request. Also within that time period, the two references you commented out had their use re added, so those refs should actually no longer be commented out. Sorry for the time waste... – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 12:54, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 June 2024

Hello! Could someone please make these edits to fix two cite errors? (This is a reversal of my previous edit request because changes were made to the page between the request and its execution that made it unnecessary.)
In § References:
Line 617:

−

<ref name="Milton1992">{{cite journal |last=Milton |first=Sybil |date=February 1992 |title=Nazi Policies towards Roma and Sinti 1933–1945 |journal=Journal of Gypsy Lore Society |volume=2 |issue=1 |pages=1–18 |url=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015077550120;view=1up;seq=3 |access-date=12 August 2016}}</ref>

+

<!-- ref not used <ref name="Milton1992">{{cite journal |last=Milton |first=Sybil |date=February 1992 |title=Nazi Policies towards Roma and Sinti 1933–1945 |journal=Journal of Gypsy Lore Society |volume=2 |issue=1 |pages=1–18 |url=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015077550120;view=1up;seq=3 |access-date=12 August 2016}}</ref> -->

Line 625:

−

<ref name="AxisYugo">{{cite encyclopedia |url=https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005456 |title=Axis Invasion of Yugoslavia{{Snd}} Croatia |encyclopedia=Holocaust Encyclopedia |publisher=[[United States Holocaust Memorial Museum]] |date=2010 |access-date=12 August 2016 |archive-url= |archive-date=}}</ref>

+

<!-- <ref name="AxisYugo">{{cite encyclopedia |url=https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005456 |title=Axis Invasion of Yugoslavia{{Snd}} Croatia |encyclopedia=Holocaust Encyclopedia |publisher=[[United States Holocaust Memorial Museum]] |date=2010 |access-date=12 August 2016 |archive-url= |archive-date=}}</ref> -->

Or revert this edit. Thank you!
— Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 14:16, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 01:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 June 2024

I request that all the South American Native tribes of South America and the Tribes of that came from Africa be included into the list of genocides. Everyone knows that the South American Native Tribes were wiped out by the Spaniards when Christopher Columbus came to occupy the land and kill the adults and Enslave the adolescents and children. We all know that when they ran out of Southern Native American people, they started aiming for the Africans, wiping out whole villages and tribes of people we will never hear about again. Killing them to grab their children, exposing them to disease or a voyage that they would never make to the new world with the conditions they had to endure. To say that the holocaust was the worst genocide in the world is to spread lies, when the genocide that happened during the slave trade to those who were enslaved in order to build North America and South America happened on a much larger scale than the holocaust. We are talking about billions of people who died and their deaths are being ignored and washed over just because their culture is darker skinned. The shame!! 2600:100A:A111:4C51:CDBC:D96:8247:F056 (talk) 15:57, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 01:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Add high end deaths for Gaza genocide from New survey

New survey gives a higher death toll for Gaza deaths https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext Vanisherman (talk) 03:28, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2024

The Gaza genocide is false as it does not follow the 10 stages of genocide. 1. Classification 2.Symbolization 3.Dehumanization 4.Organization 5.Polarization 6.Preparation 7.Extermination 8.Denial 9.Cover up The Gaza strip is a current warzone and using the logic being used to say Israel is on a genocide would mean that America during world war 2 geocide the Japanese and the Germans along with other countrys. Sirfartface (talk) 02:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Source reliability

I've opened a discussion at RSN on the reliability of the source "Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential", which cited in this article: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Chinese genocide

The Japanese crimes in China during the second sino Japanese wars are considered genocide no? It definitely should be included The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

We'd need good sources. They were civilian massacres, war crimes for sure, but has there been a genocidal intent? — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

I hope this source is good enough

some sources have called it a genocide, with focus on the nanking massacre and soon ching

https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/handle/1794/25558https://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm

The “three Alls” policy could also be used to argue that there was an established intent, especially with what happened on the ground The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

@The Great Mule of Eupatoria:, I'm working to unify the lists as per "Comparison between some lists on wikipedia". For actions in Japanese invasion of China, there are multiple specific aspects/instances which have scholarship describing them as genocide/genocidal, besides the Three Alls policy you identified, there is also the Nanjing Massacre.

From the relevant articles potential sources are:

• Three Alls
  • Felton, Mark (2015). "The Perfect Storm: Japanese military brutality during World War Two". The Routledge History of Genocide. Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781315719054-10/perfect-storm-mark-felton (inactive 31 January 2024). ISBN 9781315719054. Retrieved 24 July 2022.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of January 2024 (link) (Though I'm not to happy having a Felton source, I'll dig to see if I can find more to add to the main article)
• Nanjing
  • Campbell, Bradley (June 2009). "Genocide as social control". Sociological Theory. 27 (2): 154. doi:10.1111/j.1467-9558.2009.01341.x. JSTOR 40376129. S2CID 143902886. Also, genocide may occur in the aftermath of warfare when mass killings continue after the outcome of a battle or a war has been decided. For instance, after the Chinese city of Nanking was occupied by the Japanese in December 1937, Japanese soldiers massacred over 250,000 residents of the city.

-- Cdjp1 (talk) 16:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

In this case it definitely should be included, the sources are good enough The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 17:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Section for the Kalinago

Glancing through this list, I was a bit surprised there was no mention of the Kalinago or Carib peoples. The depopulation of the native peoples of the Caribbean was probably one of the most complete destructions of a peoples resulting from European colonialism. Is there any objection to their inclusion? NickCT (talk) 12:26, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I think Kalinago genocide would need a lot more academic sources that explicitly describe it using the term genocide. Right now there seem to be none in the article. — MarkH₂₁^talk 12:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. I really don't like that Kalinago genocide article. The subject of the article seems to be a massacre of Kalinago's on a single island. But the Kalinago were massacred on, and or displaced from, many different islands. I feel like the article covers the wrong topic, or only covers a small portion of what is a larger topic. NickCT (talk) 18:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I would support adding this to the list. It clearly meets the definition of genocide and there are several academic sources to support it. For example, Lennox Honychurch supports the classification in this paper for the University of the West Indies, and historian Melanie J. Newton describes it as such in her article "The Race Leapt at Sauteurs: Genocide, Narrative, and Indigenous Exile from the Caribbean Archipelago". Additionally Doctor Andreas Buser, a legal scholar from the University of Berlin, says in a 2016 article for the Heidelberg Journal of International Law (here) that the killings of the Kalinago people could be considered genocide. More citations might be helpful (I think this might also be discussed in Chalk and Jonassohn's The History and Sociology of Genocide, but I can't at this moment lay my hand on the passage), but there does seem to me to be something of a consensus. TRCRF22 (talk) 18:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

TRCRF22 if you wouldn't mind adding information from the sources you mention here to the Kalinago article it would be brilliant. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 20:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I've added Newton and Buser. Unfortunately I didn't realise that the article under discussion only dealt with one specific massacre rather than the wider persecution of the Carib peoples, which is what Honychurch's paper deals with, so that one doesn't fit into the article. TRCRF22 (talk) 15:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I sorta feel like article's scope is wrong. The subject of the article should be the wider persecution. NickCT (talk) 14:14, 1 August 2024 (UTC)