Talk:List of lieutenant governors of British Columbia

Governors vs Lieutenants-Governor (sic)

sic because the proper plural is Lieutenants-Governor, which should at least be a disambig (OK, OK, I'll make it...). But also because prior to 1871 the office of Lieutenant-Governor DID exist, and like the post senior to it (Governor) it was a very different office from that of Lieutenant-Governor post-1871. As red links on this or that page indicate there will be a separate article for the Crown Colony of British Columbia separate from that of the Canadian province of British Columbia, and to go along with that the Governors listing on this page currently necessarily should be a Governors of the Crown Colony of British Columbia/Colony of Vancouver('s) Island (not disambig possibility in parentheses), and the Lieutenant-Governors should be listed separately as well as having their own mini-disambig link within the Lieutenant-Governor page (which for the life of me I don't know why it resolves to Governor-General before making the jump to Lieutenant-Governor); the most notable L-G of colonial times was Trutch (under, um, Seymour I think; maybe Douglas pre-1862), who also was an L-G after BC joined Canada; but the two jobs were very different (he also had been Gov-Gen of the Falkland Islands before coming here). No colonial gubernatorial job bears any resemblance to the constitutional viceroys.Skookum1 07:53, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I have now created an article Colony of Vancouver Island. Fishhead64 06:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

On what basis do you say the proper plural is "Lieutenants-Governor"? Unlike an attorney-general, where "general" is clearly an adjective pertaining to "attorney", in the case of "Lieutenant Governor", it is clear that "lieutenant" is an adjective pertaining to "governor," so the proper plural is "lieutenant governors." john k 07:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not an adjective; they're both titles, and the roots are in old British usage/convention. The Canadian convention is, or was, that it's the Lieutenant part that gets pluralized; if anything it's the "Governor" part that's the adjective, counter-intuitive as that is by modern standards. Same with Governors-General. Lieutenant-Governor, in case you're not Canadian, is pronounced LEFT-enant Governor, by the way.....Skookum1 04:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

From my understanding it is like Governors General in that the main noun is Governor. The Governor General is a governor. The Lieutenant Governor is also a governor. So it's Governors General but Lieutenant Governors.[1] - TheMightyQuill 04:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Colonial Governors and Colonial Lieutenants-Governor

Colonial Governors should not be on this page. There was a colonial title, Lieutenant-Governor, for one thing but also the role of an L-G is very different from that of a Governor. Fielding this for discussion but I may make the change/split in a few days; there could also be a page of Colonial Lieutenants-Governor.....Or Lieutenant-Governors, if modern convention must apply (sounds strange to me....); Colonial L-Gs were kind of like Deputy Premiers now....Skookum1 04:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Since my interests extend to BC politics/history as well, had to chime in. Nope, the Colonial Governor's shouldn't be there. They aren't included with L-Gin The Encyclopedia of BC, for example, and roles were indeed very different. However, not sure if they justify their own list-page, rather than simply being slotted under their relevant colonial article (British Columbia/Vancouver Island/Combined)--Keefer4 05:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

True, there aren't that many of them; only Blanshard, Douglas, Seymour and Kennedy for the Island, only Douglas, Seymour and ... ? Kennedy? for the Mainland to 1866; then it's only Musgrave. I think Trutch was also the only L-G for the Mainland Colony, not sure just now who had the job on the island - Dallas?Skookum1 05:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW French Wikipedia used to list all the HBC Governors as though they were BC's, and also listed them alongside the L-Gs; they don't anymore after I commented on it....there's also the brief existence of the Charlottes and the Stikine as separate territories, which French Wikipedia also interestingly listed and had stubs on before English Wikipedia did, but that was Douglas only on both occasions.Skookum1 05:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW what's your thoughts on the formal plural, as in the first section on this page? I realize there's an emergent (if sad) modern convention to pluralize the "Governor" part, but....Skookum1 05:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Checked my handy Canadian Press stylebook (I was actually a journalist once upon a time...) and apparently it is a compromise. 'Governors-General' but 'Lieutenant-Governors', with 'Governor' being the operative plural (obviously).--Keefer4 06:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Granted, I guess the Lieutenants-Governor form could have been entirely an affectation developed (or preserved) in BC, like the tweedier-than-tweedy accents you can find in Victoria from people who haven't lived in the Auld Sod since they were children (if ever). But it's handy to know you've got that stylebook for later reference....(see Talk:Lower Mainland, which was partly solved by a call to the Sun pressroom).Skookum1 18:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

On the first issue, FWIW, I've never heard "Lieutenants-Governor" used, and I was raised on the Oak Bay-Saanich border which is almost as tweedy as you can get. As to the other issue, I agree that colonial governors should be listed here, but a dab link to a new article List of colonial governors of Vancouver Island and British Columbia with a short introductory blurb could appear at the beginning of this article. Someone with more time than me could be bold perhaps? Fishhead64 21:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, so somewhere along the line I picked up a too-correct affectation, I guess from an over-eager convert to Canuckobritishisms "trying to hard"; possibly one of my many Dutch/German-Canadian schoolteachers in the Valley then ;-) Anyway, that point aside, the issue of the important distinction in title/powers here has to be solved; a mis-reading of this list produced, for example, this line on the List of British Columbia Premiers:

This article only covers the time since British Columbia joined the Canadian Confederation was in 1871. Prior to that it was a British colony governed by the Lieutenant-Governors of British Columbia.

I think you see the problem; I could have changed that page last night when I found the error, but wanted to raise it here as a demonstration of why it's important that a clear separation be made. No doubt Trutch, who was Colonial L-G before/until 1871, would have liked to have been the "ruler" but that was, inherently, his boss's job (the Governor, whichever one, as he served more than one). See also notes on Talk:Executive Council of British Columbia for a similar situation with other article-titles (though those are as yet unwritten).Skookum1 19:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

"from an over-eager convert to Canuckobritishisms "trying to hard"; possibly one of my many Dutch/German-Canadian schoolteachers in the Valley" -- I'm doubled over in laughter :>)--Keefer4 20:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

that was meant to be "trying too hard" of course....I gotta get a new keyboard....Skookum1 07:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The teachers in question were Mennonite NDPers. Go figure.Skookum1 07:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC) But harshly nationalistic, even royalist in some ways, despite not being of British origin; it's from one of them that I got some of my sentiments/awareness of the loss of "Southern Columbia" in 1846, and my inital exposal to the long list of betrayals of BC and/or BCers by "Those Beyond the Mountains" and/or by Vancouver or Victoria upon BCers...They were assimilated, loyalist immigrants, like many of European origin, and embraced the history of the times and people who were here before them; and often they were the ones with the most empathy with the First Nations, not less, as also was often the case with Europeans (from-Europe Europeans, not in the modern European=white sense).Skookum1 07:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It's funny cause it's true! I've met a few of that predeliction myself, including a very staunch lady from Iceland. I'm rapidly becoming your #1 fan on here I think...--Keefer4 07:57, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Viceroys in Lotusland

While we're on the subject of L-Gs (and granted we never did abbreviate it Ls-G did we?), just wanted to comment that this list page is just that; but the role of the L-G in BC politics is often very complicated, and not entirely figurehead stuff; this was especially true in the pre-party period, but I can think of instances where Bob Rogers, David Lam and Iona Campagnolo (and maybe other recent ones, like Gardom) were all called upon to use their powers; or deftly not use their powers; but whether it's McInnes or Lotbiniere or others, it's definitely not a conventional viceregal history; I haven't noticed but I suppose there is a separate non-list page for the position and its history; and part of that history is the number of occasions where "the dealer had to play the hand" because of either political statemate, or political impropriety (or in McInnes' case, his own political improprieties...).Skookum1 18:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

i.e. so I guess "that stuff" belongs on a non-list article - ??Skookum1 18:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Lower case?

Is it lieutenant governor or Lieutenant Governor? Whichever, the title of the article should match the capitalization being used in the article. Corvus cornix_talk 06:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

What you've raised is a style guide issue, and I disagree with it, but I'm old fashioned; the long-stnading convention, in British Columbia, has always been to capitalize the term, especially when in reference to a specific individual (whether their name is present or not), rather than in the general sense (as also with Premier, and titles such as Minister of Energy rather than "minister of energy"). Apparently Government House's own website doesn't use the hyphen anymore; in my time, you'd be marked down in the school system for not including it, or forgetting to capitalize a title, whether it's Lieutenant-Governor of British Columbia, President of the United States, or Grand Imperial Wizard. But apparently Wikipedia's style guides are neither concerned with history nor tradition nor existing conventions....to me, English is being "levelled" and "standardized" through automation and things like mass style guides of this kind. CBC, CTV and Canadian Press styleguides, however, from what I can see on their sites, affects a lot of the "modern" simplifications which have been derived from "language standardizers" and "updaters"...rather than preserving history, some seem intent on doing away with it and re-erecting the language around "new realities". I have yet to see a rational explanation as to why.Skookum1 (talk) 07:56, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

It's simple grammar: when referring to a specific individual or the proper title of the office, capitals are used. When referring to the provincial viceroy in general terms, capitals are not used. Since the title of this article includes the plural of the office's official name, I do wonder whether or not lieutenant governor should be capitalised. If this one is changed, all nine other lists of lieutenant governors will have to be as well. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 13:31, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, y'see, this is a list of individuals in their offficial capacity, not in a general sense; a collective one, yes, but I don't think that should make a difference when specific people, and the status of the office, are directly under discussion. And it may be simple grammar, but it's not applied that way in many articles I've seen where e.g. "Premier" is lower-cased even when saying "the premier resigned on Nov xx"....such words should be lower-cased ONLY swhen it's in a purely generaly sense. it's similar to using "city" lower case when referring to it as a place or community, but "City" when referring to a government or something boundary/institution-specific, especially when the City is a "person". All t his needs to be spelled out more clearly in the style guides, the lower-case thing gets oppressive and looks odd time and time again; ditto with article titles. In this case "Lieutenant Governor of British Columbia" is a title, somethign like a proper name, as is the plural form, and in that phrase, plural or note, it looks downright odd without being capitalized.Skookum1 (talk) 17:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The article was moved without discussion from List of Lieutenant Governors of British Columbia to List of lieutenant governors of British Columbia more than two years ago. I've no objection to moving it back again, so long as the same is done to all the other lieutenant governor lists. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 17:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think all those moves were inappropriate; I remember when it happen but kept my lip zipped at teh time, resigning myself to the oppressive "lower case rule"....they should all be changed back; anything with a formal title or name should be respect; e.g. "Regional District of Central Okanagan" isn't spelled "Regional district of Central Okanagan", "The British Columbia Dragoons isn't "British Columbia dragoons" nor the Rocky Mountain Rangers the "Rocky Mountain rangers". The lower-case rule needs revisiting on a wholesale basis; I see things like Wah Mee massacre and Rock Springs massacre which just look wrong (as the event has a name, and the name is capitalized in common use (except "common wikipedia use"). Over-application of the "rule" (guideline) has resulted in a lot of odd-looking titles, and also popularized a new "standard" that's incorrect.Skookum1 (talk) 18:11, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Note: "Lieutenant Governor" is double-capitalized, even though the lede-line mentions are rendered to lower case (and maybe shouldn't be). And like I said, I'm old-fashioned and was whacked by a rule for not using the hyphen.....Skookum1 (talk) 18:15, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I realize the BC Government House website doesn't use the hyphen; but I wonder what the British Columbia Constitution Act (I think that's what it's called) uses, and what Hansard uses etc. To me it looks "Americanized" or at best "modernized".....Skookum1 (talk) 18:20, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Note also "Lieutenant Governor of British Columbia" and parallel titles are fully capitalized (American and Australian equivalents seem not to be).Skookum1 (talk) 18:31, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lieutenant governor of Georgia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:17, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Pearkes, Lam, Gardom and other missing pics should be easy to find

I'm surprised that David Lam and Garde Gardom don't have pics on here; are there none on their articles? Same with George Pearkes.Skookum1 (talk) 04:15, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Fixed all but Nicholson, whose article doesn't have a picture on it to "borrow".Skookum1 (talk) 04:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

I found the Judith Guichon image on flickr. She is talking with her mouth open so a crop may not turn out well. I emailed Justin Trudeau for images of Margaret and his grandfather which don't have images either. Does the missing one have any family that are easy to contact?--Canoe1967 (talk) 05:05, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Don't know about family, but I'd think there might be something on BC Archives if you want to try searching there; don't know much about him. Use this to search, I don't have time right now.Skookum1 (talk) 05:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

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