Talk:List of listed buildings in Tibbermore

First list

This is the first list of listed buildings in Scotland. I used the data from historic Scotland. Some background info here. This page uses {{HB Scotland header}} and {{HB Scotland row}} for the layout.

• parbur is derived from the PARBUR field in the database. Playing around a bit with the data to automagically link to the right article. Also used in the intro
• county derived from the COUNTY field in the database, but it's actually one of council area's. It's all capitals in the source. I mapped them so it contains the name of the Wikipedia article. Also linked in the intro
• HBnum is the unique identifier attached to a listing. This is used for the link and to identify images at Commons
• Name is derived from the "ADDRESS" field in the database. The database is all uppercase so I had to convert this to lowercase and the first letter uppercase. That might introduce some small errors, but still much better than all capitals
• Notes is empty. I added this because this is used in other lists and it looks useful
• The coordinates are converted from x/y in the UK system to lat/lon in our standard (wsg84) system
• Category is the type of listing
• Listed is since when it's listed
• Picture is empty to insert pictures of the buildings.

What do you think? Multichill (talk) 15:10, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Looks good, some comments:

• For the coordinates, I think its best to use OS grid references. These are more useful and more easily understood by most people in the UK. You can use templates which will make them a link to maps, and will automatically convert to latitude/longitude. eg Template:Gbmappingsmall
• For the names its seems they would be best converted to title case, as most of them are placenames.
• For the date, maybe name the column "Date listed" or something? Also, it would look better if the dates were in standard dd mmm yyyy format. Though not sure if sorting by column would work with that.
• Also worth clarifying that this list if for the parish of Tibbermore, not just the village. --Vclaw (talk) 16:29, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

• Most countries have their own mapping/coordinate system. This is the standard understood both by the UK and people outside it so I converted it.
• I changed it to title case. Looks a bit better, does need some editing.
• I changed the header for the date. Having the source in ISO format makes it easy to show it in a different way.
• I added a link to the parishes in the intro. Is the wording correct?

Thanks for the feedback! Multichill (talk) 20:23, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

• looking quite good, but, even if they can't be filled in automatically, I think there should be a column for the date of the building; the listing date could be sacrificed imo, if space is short. I don't know how standard the format is for existing lists, but the columns at Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Cheshire look better to me. In a village it may not matter much, but in towns a column for the proper address is key; does the metadata include postcodes (KT1 4NM etc)? If so, this is essential to include, especially for WLM puropses, as car satnavs will need it. Actually there don't seem to be many such tabulated lists, but Grade I listed buildings in Leicester is another, as of course is List of Category A listed buildings in Perth and Kinross. None bother with the date of listing, a purely bureacratic piece of information easily found from the official websites in the unlikely event that anybody wants to know. Many thanks for this! Johnbod (talk) 14:30, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Looks good, best to use WGS84 coordinates (if only room for one option), as these are understood by our international readers, are machine readable (using {{Coord}} as presently), are parsed by organisations like Google and Yahoo, and are used by our own mobile apps. However, excessive precision should be avoided: four decimal places may do, certainly no more than six. The row template should have at least one header cell, and possibly two (ref number and name). I've edited the row template, to make it emit hCard microformat metadata. Accordingly, {{Start date}} should be used for the construction date (if added as suggested; and if not vague; and not before 1583) but not the date of listing. The |date= parameter should be renamed (if retained) to something like |date-listed=. Two questions: should we red-link buildings for which we have no articles; and should we display a key for category (it could be templated). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:28, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd tend to say no to the first - the article name will very often not be the same, as most ("St Mary's Church", "22 Bridge St" etc) would need disambiguation anyway. I don't understand the second question exactly. Johnbod (talk) 16:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough on linking. A key would explain the meanings of "A" "C(S)" etc. I've boldly added header cells. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:43, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good - love the maps! Johnbod (talk) 16:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Key created at {{Listed-Scotland}} and added to list page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:36, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

It would be worth taking a look at Grade I listed buildings in Greater Manchester, which is a Featured List, and takes a bit of a different approach here - i.e. focusing on Grade 1 only (there's similar articles for other grades, see Template:Manchester B&S for links), and covers a broader geography. Of course there's no right answer here, though. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:58, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed not, but as is most often the case, there are several advantages for readers, re-users, and editors, in standardising and templating such lists. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 06:26, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. The points:

• Columns : Now notes, can change that to anything later (date, architect, whatever). This can be done after the import as long as notes is not very much in use
• I'm afraid I don't have any addresses in my metadata. I do have an ADDRESS field, but that's the data I put in the "name" field.
• I removed the listing date, it's indeed not needed.
• I will round the lat/lon to 6 digits for the newer imports.
• Including red links can be useful to encourage people to write articles about things.

Today I build the structure and now I'm going to do a bot request so I can do the actual import. You can see some tests linked from List of listed buildings in Aberdeenshire. Multichill (talk) 17:22, 18 May 2012 (UTC)